Essence/Energies

[Melchior]

I assume that Byzantine Cahtolics agree with Essence/Energies of God description that the Orthodox do, as well as apophatism. This has prompted a question:

When Jesus walked among men, beintg fully God and fully man, did his disciples and those who encountered him experience Him in his essence or energies?

Mel

 

[dbacks5439]

Could you provide the definition of Essence/Energies of God to a Latin Catholic as well as apophatism please?

 

[Melchior]

Could you provide the definition of Essence/Energies of God to a Latin Catholic as well as apophatism please?

I will do my best, but it is rather complicated and philosophical so I barely understand it myself.

Basically, the eastern churches teach we cannot ever know God in his essence but only in His energies, that which eminates from Him. So when we experience God in anyway it is His energies that we are experiencing not His essence.

Apophatism say we can only approach God by negation, Catophatism focusing on positive statements about God (He is love, He is just, good, holy etc.) The negation appraoch says every description falls far short so we can only use positive statements about God because He is so transcendent as to be beyond description.

I am sure my attempts at brief explanation are very deficient.

Mel

 

[wynd]

Could you provide the definition of Essence/Energies of God to a Latin Catholic as well as apophatism please?

From Wikipedia:Orthodox theology holds that while humans can never know God’s “Essence” and that direct experience of God would simply obliterate us (much as Moses could not survive seeing God’s face), God’s “Energies” can be directly experienced (as Moses could see God’s back and live). These energies are considered to be uncreated in nature. The presence of the energies is not to be taken as denial of the philosophical simplicity of God. Therefore, when speaking of God, it is acceptable within Eastern Orthodoxy to speak of his energies as God.

More: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essence-Energies_distinction

 

[Alexius]

I assume that Byzantine Cahtolics agree with Essence/Energies of God description that the Orthodox do, as well as apophatism. This has prompted a question:

When Jesus walked among men, beintg fully God and fully man, did his disciples and those who encountered him experience Him in his essence or energies?

Mel

By strict definition, as he is fully God, we can only know Him by His energies. As fully human, I can’t say because I’m not sure II don’t know, but I would say that we can’t know Him in His essence in anyway…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[dbacks5439]

I will do my best, but it is rather complicated and philosophical so I barely understand it myself.

Basically, the eastern churches teach we cannot ever know God in his essence but only in His energies, that which eminates from Him. So when we experience God in anyway it is His energies that we are experiencing not His essence.

Apophatism say we can only approach God by negation, Catophatism focusing on positive statements about God (He is love, He is just, good, holy etc.) The negation appraoch says every description falls far short so we can only use positive statements about God because He is so transcendent as to be beyond description.

I am sure my attempts at brief explanation are very deficient.

Mel

So it’s similar to Via Negativa, or way of negation. When we are in Heaven and stand before the Beatific Vision, we only see His energies and not His essence? Can the angels see His essence?

 

[Alexius]

So it’s similar to Via Negativa, or way of negation. When we are in Heaven and stand before the Beatific Vision, we only see His energies and not His essence? Can the angels see His essence?

No, not even the angels can know Him in His essence. Even greater than the angels, the Theotokos can’t know God in His essence either…No one can…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Catherine_Grant]

Note from Moderator:

Several off-topic posts were split into another thread. Please stay on the topic of the Eastern Catholic understandings of the concepts of God’s Essence and Energies.

Any debate between east and west on the issue belongs in the new thread.