Ethic 2: karl Marx's dialectic materialism

[jaimelopez]

from a christian point of view what’s wrong with marx’s ethic and WHY?

 

[jaimelopez]

my classes of ethic seems atheism classes.

 

[MPat]

from a christian point of view what’s wrong with marx’s ethic and WHY?

I guess the short approximate answer might be “He didn’t offer any.”. For example, plato.stanford.edu/entries/marx/#5 cites one part of the “Communist manifesto”: “communism abolishes … all religion and all morality, rather than constituting them on a new basis”.

Now his followers have offered something closer to ethics, for example, “Moral Code of the Builder of Communism” (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Code_of_the_Builder_of_Communism). Then other problems arise. For example, it is self contradicting (part nr. 6 demands “humane attitude between people”, yet part nr. 11 demands “intolerance towards enemies of Communism” - is “humane attitude” compatible with “intolerance”?), and it is not clear why one should care about it (short of threat of violence)…

Which leaves a question: what exactly is offered as “Marx’s ethics” in your classes?

 

[triumphguy]

from a christian point of view what’s wrong with marx’s ethic and WHY?

• Historical and material determinism - vitiates against free will. Our history is not part of a “system.”
• Inevitablility of class warfare - again this is not inevitable, and true justice can do away with these tensions.
• Property is theft - counter to Catholicism where the ability to own capital is fundamental
• Dictatorship of the Proletariat - against the Catholic principal of subsidiarity

 

[jaimelopez]

I guess the short approximate answer might be “He didn’t offer any.”. For example, plato.stanford.edu/entries/marx/#5 cites one part of the “Communist manifesto”: “communism abolishes … all religion and all morality, rather than constituting them on a new basis”.

Now his followers have offered something closer to ethics, for example, “Moral Code of the Builder of Communism” (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Code_of_the_Builder_of_Communism). Then other problems arise. For example, it is self contradicting (part nr. 6 demands “humane attitude between people”, yet part nr. 11 demands “intolerance towards enemies of Communism” - is “humane attitude” compatible with “intolerance”?), and it is not clear why one should care about it (short of threat of violence)…

Which leaves a question: what exactly is offered as “Marx’s ethics” in your classes?

In general terms, the classical Marxist philosophy, i.e., Marx and Engels (19th century), is conceived simply as a vision of the world and life scientifically founded in political economy led to the understanding of the springs which originate the social change determined by laws which are explained on the one class struggle which leads - according to them - to the progress of the civilization towards a new society, first Socialist and later Communist, where there is no exploitation of man by man, the difference economic between classes, nor the same classes.

 

[MPat]

In general terms, the classical Marxist philosophy, i.e., Marx and Engels (19th century), is conceived simply as a vision of the world and life scientifically founded in political economy led to the understanding of the springs which originate the social change determined by laws which are explained on the one class struggle which leads - according to them - to the progress of the civilization towards a new society, first Socialist and later Communist, where there is no exploitation of man by man, the difference economic between classes, nor the same classes.

Yes, but that’s just Marxism in general. I am not sure it can be called “ethics” any more than, let’s say, “ontology”…

So, if it is just Marxism in general that is being presented as “ethics”, “triumphguy” has listed some problems with it. If you’d prefer a detailed explanation, there is an encyclical “Divini Redemptoris” by Pius XI (w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19031937_divini-redemptoris.html).

and later Communist, where there is no exploitation of man by man, the difference economic between classes, nor the same classes.

As one Soviet political joke goes, “In Capitalism, man exploits man, while in Communism - vice versa.”.