Eucahrist and the Jewish Passover?

[JJHIII]

My father and i have been discussing Christ’s Real Presence in the Bread and Wine at Communion, he is a former Catholic now attending the “church of Christ.” He has agreed with me on almost all arguments for the Eucharist. Meaning, what Christ said, what Paul said, Early Christians believed it.

What doesnt make sense to him, and i must admit it is an interesting point, if the Eucharist is the parallel to the Jewish Passover, then why does Jesus offer His Body BEFORE He is sacrificed on the cross. Dad’s argument is that the Passover Lamb was consumed AFTER** it had been sacrificed. Dad says that it wouldnt make sense for Jesus to literally be offering His own Body like the Paschal Lamb, since He had not yet died.

Keep in mind that this argument is different from the normal Protestant argument which is “Jesus couldn’t have offered His body just because He was still living.” Dad fully believes that Christ could’ve held His Body in His hands before He died. He just has a problem with the “logical order” of things.

I don’t know how to answer him on this point. Any and all help would be aprreciated

-JJ**

 

[benedictgal]

My father and i have been discussing Christ’s Real Presence in the Bread and Wine at Communion, he is a former Catholic now attending the “church of Christ.” He has agreed with me on almost all arguments for the Eucharist. Meaning, what Christ said, what Paul said, Early Christians believed it.

What doesnt make sense to him, and i must admit it is an interesting point, if the Eucharist is the parallel to the Jewish Passover, then why does Jesus offer His Body BEFORE He is sacrificed on the cross. Dad’s argument is that the Passover Lamb was consumed AFTER**** it had been sacrificed. Dad says that it wouldnt make sense for Jesus to literally be offering His own Body like the Paschal Lamb, since He had not yet died.

Keep in mind that this argument is different from the normal Protestant argument which is “Jesus couldn’t have offered His body just because He was still living.” Dad fully believes that Christ could’ve held His Body in His hands before He died. He just has a problem with the “logical order” of things.

I don’t know how to answer him on this point. Any and all help would be aprreciated

-JJ

Here is an exerpt from a homily that Pope Benedict XVI delivered on Holy Thursday back in 2007:

Jesus truly shed his blood on the eve of Easter at the time of the immolation of the lambs. In all likelihood, however, he celebrated the Passover with his disciples in accordance with the Qumran calendar, hence, at least one day earlier; he celebrated it without a lamb, like the Qumran community which did not recognize Herod’s temple and was waiting for the new temple.

 

[japhy]

What doesnt make sense to him, and i must admit it is an interesting point, if the Eucharist is the parallel to the Jewish Passover, then why does Jesus offer His Body BEFORE He is sacrificed on the cross. Dad’s argument is that the Passover Lamb was consumed AFTER**** it had been sacrificed. Dad says that it wouldnt make sense for Jesus to literally be offering His own Body like the Paschal Lamb, since He had not yet died.
If you look at the Greek text of the Gospels, you’ll see that Jesus is indeed speaking the present tense.

Matthew 26:28 “τοῦτο γὰρ ἐστιν τὸ αἷμα μου τῆς διαθήκης τὸ περὶ πολλῶν ἐκχυννόμενον εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν.” (which is shed)

Mark 14:24 “καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς· τοῦτο ἐστιν τὸ αἷμα μου τῆς διαθήκης τὸ ἐκχυννόμενον ὑπὲρ πολλῶν.” (which is shed)

Luke 22:19 “τοῦτο έστιν τὸ σῶμα μου τὸ ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν διδόμενον” (which is given)

Even though the English words we hear in the Eucharistic Prayers use the future tense (“this is my body which will be given up for you” and “it will be shed for you…”), the Greek uses the present tense.

What Jesus made present without signs on the Cross, He anticipated (in a real way) and made present under the forms of bread and wine the night before, and He continues to make present under those same forms today and every day.

Why did Jesus celebrate the first Eucharist before His death rather than after His resurrection? Well, I think it shows a numerical identity between Jesus before His death and after His death: the Jesus Who offered His sacrifice to the Apostles under the form of bread and wine is the same Jesus Who offered His sacrifice on the Cross.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

I will allow this topic to continue in this forum with no debate. Objections/challenges to this teaching should be taken to the Apologetics forum. Thank you all.

 

[benedictgal]

Here are two of the last three paragraphs from the homily I quoted in my initial response. I think that they sum up the Holy Father’s point rather well:

The paschal haggada, the commemoration of God’s saving action, has become a memorial of the Cross and Resurrection of Christ - a memorial that does not simply recall the past but attracts us within the presence of Christ’s love.

Thus, the berakah, Israel’s prayer of blessing and thanksgiving, has become our Eucharistic celebration in which the Lord blesses our gifts - the bread and wine - to give himself in them. Let us pray to the Lord that he will help us to understand this marvellous mystery ever more profoundly, to love it more and more, and in it, to love the Lord himself ever more.

You cannot have the Last Supper without the Cross and the Resurrection. You cannot have the Cross without the Last Supper and the Resurrection. You cannot have the Resurrection without the Cross and the Last Supper. All three are integral parts of each other. That is why the Paschal Triduum, Holy Thursday, Good Friday and the Easter Vigil are all taken as one complete liturgy.

 

[JJHIII]

All of this has really helped me to understand this further

Thanks - JJ