D
dennisknapp
Guest
What is the Eucharist to those who recieve without faith? I assume that not all those going up to the alter have faith, so what is the Eucharist doing to them.
- Status
D
Dr.Colossus
Guest
The Eucharist is not “doing” anything to them, but by receiving without belief that the Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, they are doing grave damage to themselves. Partaking of Holy Communion without faith is a mortal sin (assuming the person knows what they are doing).
:bible1: "Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. " 1 Corinthians 11:27-29
:bible1: "Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. " 1 Corinthians 11:27-29
T
Trelow
Guest
Dr. Colossus:
I like the purple o
D
Dr.Colossus
Guest
LOL, I didn’t even notice that…I had deleted a footnote link that was purple, and accidentally deleted the ‘o’, too. Then I retyped it, and I guess it kept the formatting from the link.
S
space_ghost
Guest
i guess i miss the point of the question here… if you had no faith why would you be in line… it’s like we are just looking for reasons to dump on someone here… we are assuming that some of those recieving communion don’t believe it’s the body and blood of Jesus… ok, but i fail to see the logic…
now, if the question is, are they receiving it worthily, well that is another issue… maybe i am just not understanding the question…
unless someone is confessing to you that they are going to communion, and their only going just for the heck of it… they don’t really believe…
i suppose i need to get out more, i don’t know and would dare not assume much less take the time to try and figure who might be receiving Eucharist and doesn’t acknowledge the true presence…
if you really feel someone is going that doesn’t believe in the real presence, well i suggest maybe a dialog, possibly prayer for their understanding… another thing… if they don’t believe it’s Chirst, then i am not altogether sure it’s sin… because you have to believe what your doing is wrong and sinful to be held accountable.
Don’t you…
my final recommendation… pay closer attention to your timber, and less to their splinter… but, continue to pray for them… it may make you feel better
D
dennisknapp
Guest
space ghost
"my final recommendation… pay closer attention to your timber, and less to their splinter… but, continue to pray for them… it may make you feel better "
This post is not an implication against any individual person. It is just a hypothetical example. We receive Christ by faith in the Eucharish, but what of those who have no faith? If they have no faith and our doing it in ignorence what is happening for them?
"my final recommendation… pay closer attention to your timber, and less to their splinter… but, continue to pray for them… it may make you feel better
"This post is not an implication against any individual person. It is just a hypothetical example. We receive Christ by faith in the Eucharish, but what of those who have no faith? If they have no faith and our doing it in ignorence what is happening for them?
P
puzzleannie
Guest
this gets into the theology of the Eucharist, which has been amplified on several threads, and issue which were at the heart of early heresies, and the Reformation. namely, do the sacramental words and actions effect what they signify, in and of themselves if said and done with right intention, or are the effects dependent on factors like the disposition or state of soul of the priest, faith of the communicant etc. It is the position of several Protestant sects that the effects are dependent on the faith of the communicant, which is contrary to Catholic teaching. Jesus is truly present in the validly confected Eucharist, body, blood soul and divinity as long as the species retain the identifiable accidents of bread and wine. This is true whether they are consumed by a believer or non-believer, or retained in tabernacle, or even if desecrated, which is why that is a sacrilege.
J
justinmatter
Guest
ok, i agree with that.
still, other than the sin of sacrilege, does no good come to the person by having recieved the eucharist?
i’m not sure about this and just ask to clear my head on the topic
thanks a million
D
dennisknapp
Guest
puzzleanne
“this gets into the theology of the Eucharist, which has been amplified on several threads, and issue which were at the heart of early heresies, and the Reformation. namely, do the sacramental words and actions effect what they signify, in and of themselves if said and done with right intention, or are the effects dependent on factors like the disposition or state of soul of the priest, faith of the communicant etc. It is the position of several Protestant sects that the effects are dependent on the faith of the communicant, which is contrary to Catholic teaching. Jesus is truly present in the validly confected Eucharist, body, blood soul and divinity as long as the species retain the identifiable accidents of bread and wine. This is true whether they are consumed by a believer or non-believer, or retained in tabernacle, or even if desecrated, which is why that is a sacrilege.”
I totally agree with what the Church teaches about the Eucharist. But the positive affects of the Real Presence of Jesus body, blood soul and divinity affect me in a special way because I have faith and believe I am, through this most special form of Grace, hopefully becoming what I eat. Is it the opposite for those who do not believe?
“this gets into the theology of the Eucharist, which has been amplified on several threads, and issue which were at the heart of early heresies, and the Reformation. namely, do the sacramental words and actions effect what they signify, in and of themselves if said and done with right intention, or are the effects dependent on factors like the disposition or state of soul of the priest, faith of the communicant etc. It is the position of several Protestant sects that the effects are dependent on the faith of the communicant, which is contrary to Catholic teaching. Jesus is truly present in the validly confected Eucharist, body, blood soul and divinity as long as the species retain the identifiable accidents of bread and wine. This is true whether they are consumed by a believer or non-believer, or retained in tabernacle, or even if desecrated, which is why that is a sacrilege.”
I totally agree with what the Church teaches about the Eucharist. But the positive affects of the Real Presence of Jesus body, blood soul and divinity affect me in a special way because I have faith and believe I am, through this most special form of Grace, hopefully becoming what I eat. Is it the opposite for those who do not believe?
J
JimG
Guest
It seems to me that if you receive without believing, it is rather an insult to the Lord, like inviting Him into your home and then ignoring Him, acting as if no one is there. That cannot be a good thiing. St. Paul said as much about those who eat and drink the Eucharist “without discerning the body.”
S
space_ghost
Guest
my apologies… no offense intended… but i’m back to the first paragraph of my first post… let me go at it this way… if they are doing it in ignorance, my understanding is you have to be aware of the transgression for it to be culpable… i suppose if they have no faith then whether or not they are going to church and receiving the Eucharist is mut…space ghost
"my final recommendation… pay closer attention to your timber, and less to their splinter… but, continue to pray for them… it may make you feel better
This post is not an implication against any individual person. It is just a hypothetical example. We receive Christ by faith in the Eucharish, but what of those who have no faith? If they have no faith and our doing it in ignorence what is happening for them?
i am probably missing the point… i again apologize if i offended, not my intention…
P
puzzleannie
Guest
if GWB comes down here to speak, and I am in the auditorium do I really hear the President? What if I am there but can’t hear his speech. What if I am there, but I don’t know who he is, I am a foreigner and have never see the president, and I don’t even know my new country has a president. Is he still there for me? What if I get a chance to shake his hand and speak with him? Will that give me a more immediate experience of meeting the President? There president is there whether or not I see him, hear him, or listen to him. His speech still has meaning whether or not I hear or listen or understand the language. My experience of meeting the president will depend on my attitude, ability to interact with him, to understand what he says. What if I hate him, his party, and everything he stands for. He can give the greatest speech in the world, even say things I agree with, but because of my prejudice I will not hear or resond to his message.
the essence and reality of Jesus present in the Eucharist is unchanged, the individual’s ability and disposition to benefit from that presence is dependent on preparation, openness, and being in the state of grace to benefit from it.
the essence and reality of Jesus present in the Eucharist is unchanged, the individual’s ability and disposition to benefit from that presence is dependent on preparation, openness, and being in the state of grace to benefit from it.
- Status