Eucharist; Communion; Lord's Supper

[2nd_Adam]

Originally Posted by izoid
Hey Adam----I don’t think you are reformed at all. I think you have some deep seated presbyterian beliefs. Are you aware of the differences between the Reformed Church and the Presbyterians?

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Originally Posted by 2nd Adam
LOL… you got me… please tell me.

Westminster…Heidelburg…i am not so sure, there are so many of you Protestant sects to keep track of. It is sooooo confusing.

I was hoping you could tell me. Since protestantism is cafeteria Christianity, would it be possible to hold to free will and assurance of salvation?

By these postings, I knew you were never truly a real Calvinist…LOL. Why don’t you think that I am Reformed at all? And what are the differences between the Reformed Chruch and the Presbyterians according to your posting? Are you trying to imply that I’m really an Arminian?

 

[2nd_Adam]

It would have to be 1 billion.

Since I had to make up a number I thought I might as well aim high.

Remember, some of my best friends in high school, college and young adulthood were and are still Catholic. Surfing was our common bound, so we knew each other very well. BTW… is it a mortal sin for a Catholic to partake in the Eucharist and have doubts that the elements have changed to the literal flesh and blood of Jesus Christ?

 

[ralphinal]

Remember, some of my best friends in high school, college and young adulthood were and are still Catholic. Surfing was our common bound, so we knew each other very well. BTW… is it a mortal sin for a Catholic to partake in the Eucharist and have doubts that the elements have changed to the literal flesh and blood of Jesus Christ?

10,000 doubts do not make a sin. 1 denial does.

To say that the Church is wrong is a sin. To not understand is not.

 

[izoid]

:

By these postings, I knew you were never truly a real Calvinist…LOL. Why don’t you think that I am Reformed at all? And what are the differences between the Reformed Chruch and the Presbyterians according to your posting? Are you trying to imply that I’m really an Arminian?

You make it very difficult to understand what you really believe. On the one hand, you profess Calvinism and then deny his ideas on the Catholic Church. This makes me think that you are not as reformed as you would like to think you are. You are certainly not an Arminian.

Regarding the differences between Reformed and Presbyterian is a whole different issue. Are you aligned with the Presbyterians that ordain homosexuals?

When you say Reformed, do you mean RCA or CRC? Again, similar, yet slightly different theologies and authority.

I would find it hard to determine your what you believe through a denominational title. It seems as most protestant denominations have several offshoots within them that all teach similar yet different theologies.

 

[greggy53]

What percentage of 1 billion Catholics believe the official Catholic view of the Eucharist?

I don’t know you tell me. If you think a majority or a lot of Catholics don’t tow the official line you must have some evidence for justifying that opinion? Even so, any number you might conjure up would not change the official Catholic teaching would it? Because you maintain that you use scripture to guide you it makes it easier for you to say “I like what Calvin taught about this, but I don’t like what he said about that. And so what you end up with is “Protestant stew” with a pinch of Luther, and a dab of Calvin, and whatever else you think sounds good. Everyone wants to flavor their stew to their own taste so you end up with well over 10,000 recipes for “protestant stew.” They can’t all be right, and as my mother used to say “Too many cooks spoil the broth.”

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Another thing to keep in mind, is that catholics believe that the wine is the actual blood of christ. At the end of Mass, all the vessels has to be purified by the priest. All those “Little cups” would have to be purified by an ordained priest or deacon, or an instituted acolyte. So not practical. Not to mention the chance of possible profanation of his body and blood.

Here’s a part of a letter from St. Jerome to the Pope Theophilus around 400 a.d who gives admiration for what the Pope is teaching and instructing about reverence for the Holy things of God in the Holy Vessels that contain the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

To the most blessed pope Theophilus, Jerome.
…"** I admire in your work **its practical aim, **designed as it is to instruct by the authority of scripture ignorant persons in all the churches concerning the reverence **with which they must handle holy things and minister at Christ’s altar; and to impress upon them that the sacred chalices, veils, and other accessories used in the celebration of the Lord’s passion are not mere lifeless and senseless objects devoid of holiness, but that rather, from their association with the body and blood of the Lord, they are to be venerated with the same awe as the body and the blood themselves".

The Catholic Church has always venerated the things of God, including the ancient Hebrews had to pay reverence to their untensils in the Holy of Holies. So continues the body of Jesus Christ in his Catholic Church, to keep those things holy and undefiled by unbelievers.

Peace be with you

 

[2nd_Adam]

10,000 doubts do not make a sin. 1 denial does.

To say that the Church is wrong is a sin. To not understand is not.

But is it a mortal sin for Protestants to deny the Catholic view of the Eucharist?

 

[2nd_Adam]

You make it very difficult to understand what you really believe. On the one hand, you profess Calvinism and then deny his ideas on the Catholic Church. This makes me think that you are not as reformed as you would like to think you are. You are certainly not an Arminian.

Regarding the differences between Reformed and Presbyterian is a whole different issue. Are you aligned with the Presbyterians that ordain homosexuals?

When you say Reformed, do you mean RCA or CRC? Again, similar, yet slightly different theologies and authority.

I would find it hard to determine your what you believe through a denominational title. It seems as most protestant denominations have several offshoots within them that all teach similar yet different theologies.

That’s a radical post. I think the visble church has sinned against minority groups throughout church history including race, sex, divorced, american slavery, etc. I believe sexual orientation is one of the last areas that the visible church sins against. I pretty much adhere to the Westminster Confession of Faith and the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. I have been mostly influenced by Westminster West Seminary because the PCA that I attended was only 20 mintues from that seminary.

 

[Robert_Michael]

I believe both the Body and Blood should be taken. I do not accept the Catholic teaching that only one must be taken.

 

[greggy53]

But is it a mortal sin for Protestants to deny the Catholic view of the Eucharist?

I was taught as a boy in Catholic school that just being a Protestant was a mortal sin. I know the Church has softened it’s stance since then…But I wonder what your real motive is for asking this question. Is it to gather conflicting opinions on various Catholic doctrines in order perhaps to bolster a postion that Catholics are as divided as the Protestants?

 

[TheosisM]

But is it a mortal sin for Protestants to deny the Catholic view of the Eucharist?

For something to be a mortal sin, one has to have full knowledge that it is a sin, and yet they commit it anyway. Do Protestants know that the Catholic view of the Eucharist is the true one, and yet some still believe that it is symbolic? That is the question that has to be answered first.

 

[greggy53]

I believe both the Body and Blood should be taken. I do not accept the Catholic teaching that only one must be taken.

It is not Catholic teaching that only one must be taken. We are encouraged to receive in both species. But it is not required for the layperson. The priest who performs the consecration must take both body and blood.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I believe both the Body and Blood should be taken. I do not accept the Catholic teaching that only one must be taken.

In a valid consecrated host, even a small crumb from the Eucharistic Host, or a dip of the blood less than a drop, taken independently or seperately or only one species without the other, this one is recieving the whole body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ.

1Corinthians 2:9… But as it is written; “What eye has not seen, and ear has not heard, and what has not entered the human heart, what God has prepared for those who love him,” v10… This God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths of God. 11… no one knows what pertains to God except the Spirit of God. 12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we speak about them not with words taught by human wisdom, but with words taught by the Spirit, describing spiritual realities in spiritual terms.14** Now the natural person does not accept what pertains to the Spirit of God, for to him it is foolishness, and he cannot understand it, because it is judged spiritually. 15 The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgment by anyone.16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to counsel him?” But we have the mind of Christ.**

1Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

1Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been purchased with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body.

Hebrews 11:1…Faith is the realization of what is hoped for and evidence of things not seen.

1John 3:27 Those who keep his commandments remain in him, and he in them, and the way we know that he remains in us is from the Spirit that he gave us. 4:1 Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.** This is how you can know the Spirit of God; **every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh belongs to God, and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God.
**This spirit is of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world. **You belong to God, children, and you have conquered them, for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They belong to the world: accordingly, their teachings belongs to the world, and the world listens to them. We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refused to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.

1Corinthians 15:36 You fool!! What you sow is not brought to life unless it dies. 37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be but a bare kernel of wheat, perhaps, or of some other kind;** but God gives it a body as he chooses, and to each of the seeds its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for human beings, another kind of flesh for animals, another kind of flesh for birds, and another for fish. 40 There are both heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the brightness of the heavenly is one kind and that of the earthly another.**

1Corinthians 6:17 But whoever is joined to the Lord becomes one Spirit with him.

1Corinthians 10:16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because the loaf of bread is one, we, though many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.

1Corinthians 12:12 As a body is one though it has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though many, are one body, so also Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free persons, and we were all given to DRINK of one Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4 One body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Ephesians 2: 22 And he put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way. 3:21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.

What is mysterious is that the cup of blessing is mixed with wine and water. These symbolize the divinity of Jesus and his flesh mixed. These species before the Word of God gives them his life through transubstantiation, are symbols of Jesus blood (blood of grapes) and our humanity now when mixed together at the consecration of the High Priest Jesus himself (Luke 22:20 “ likewise the cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you”.) This is what fallen humanity needs to have eternal life. Fallen humanity must partake of the body and blood soul and divinity of Jesus Christ the Word of God made flesh.

 

[greggy53]

For something to be a mortal sin, one has to have full knowledge that it is a sin, and yet they commit it anyway. Do Protestants know that the Catholic view of the Eucharist is the true one, and yet some still believe that it is symbolic? That is the question that has to be answered first.

Case in point: I have relations who were raised Catholic but have long since become Protestants. A few years back at the funeral Mass of another relative they all took communion. They had full knowledge of what the Church teaches communion is. Had rejected that teaching, and took communion anyway.

 

[izoid]

That’s a radical post. I think the visble church has sinned against minority groups throughout church history including race, sex, divorced, american slavery, etc. I believe sexual orientation is one of the last areas that the visible church sins against. I pretty much adhere to the Westminster Confession of Faith and the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. I have been mostly influenced by Westminster West Seminary because the PCA that I attended was only 20 mintues from that seminary.

What is radical about my post? The fact that you are conflicted in your personal theology when compared to the founder of that theology or the idea that your protestant denominations are conflicted amongst themselves?

 

[2nd_Adam]

2nd_Adam:

For the Christmas season, I will limit my participation to this one thread. :christmastree1:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=405340