Eucharist in Protestant churches: Transubstantiation or totally meaningless?

[masuwerte]

We should be very careful of saying, “nothing happens” or, “the elements remain bread and wine,” lest we presume to limit what God can or will do. Who are we to say that the almight and merciful Lord, seeing the sincere belief of a congregation without apostolic succession, might not bless them with his presence anyway?

As an Episcopalian, I believe that we have apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, but of course I understand that Catholics are required to believe otherwise.

 

[MacQ]

Thank you for your answer

I apologise again (a text based world is so inadequate for touchy subjects). I’m actually a protestant in the process of converting to Catholicism, it’s just that my protestant background causes me to see a lot of stuff in the Catholic church in uncomfortable ways. Perhaps this comes out in my choice of words, but this is unintentional.
For example, while I can see intellectually how bowing to a statue of a saint is not idolatry, it still feels like it when I attend mass and see everyone doing it. In this particular case I don’t see the compressed bread/little wafers being used anywhere outside the Catholic church, and I was wondering how much ritualism it is possible to drop and still have a valid sacrament. How minimalist can you go? Does the Priest have to be wearing the robe? Is incense a necessity? etc. I will read up on these “5 requirements for sacrament” you mentioned

edit: actually a brief duckduckgo and google search on the 5 requirements hasn’t turned anything up, could you give me some direction?

Here are some references for you:

What is most important about the catholic sacrament of eucharist:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm

General instructions for Mass from the Roman Missal:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20030317_ordinamento-messale_en.html

Norms for distribution of communion:
usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/norms-for-holy-communion-under-both-kinds/index.cfm

Godspeed in your journey.
It takes awhile to get acclimated to reacting like a catholic rather than like a protestant. For some, even a time after they are already converted. Be patient with yourself.

 

[beckie_clark]

in every “Christian” relilgion outside of the Catholic the bread and wine is just sybols but. the catholic church is the only one who has the authority and ter right formulation of words to cause transubstanciation

 

[MacQ]

in every “Christian” relilgion outside of the Catholic the bread and wine is just sybols but. the catholic church is the only one who has the authority and ter right formulation of words to cause transubstanciation

You do not know that.
It might be better to say that the Catholic Church’s firm belief is that transubstantiation occurs through our formulation, and for us the species become the body and blood of Christ…the real presence.
SOME protestant traditions do not even claim that their bread is anything more than bread…a symbolic sharing in remembrance of the last supper. It is still a reverent act and should be respected.

But some other protestants do actually believe in the real presence in their communion rites. And we cannot claim that God doesn’t act in their midst to cause it to be so.

I agree with the following earlier post from MSUWERTE:

“We should be very careful of saying, “nothing happens” or, “the elements remain bread and wine,” lest we presume to limit what God can or will do. Who are we to say that the almight and merciful Lord, seeing the sincere belief of a congregation without apostolic succession, might not bless them with his presence anyway?”

 

[AmbroseSJ]

We should be very careful of saying, “nothing happens” or, “the elements remain bread and wine,” lest we presume to limit what God can or will do. Who are we to say that the almight and merciful Lord, seeing the sincere belief of a congregation without apostolic succession, might not bless them with his presence anyway?

As an Episcopalian, I believe that we have apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, but of course I understand that Catholics are required to believe otherwise.

It is undeniable that ANY church gathered together in the name of Christ Jesus has His presence among them. Matt 18: 20

That is not the same as the “real presence” of course. The real presence is the physical presence of Jesus, in his Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. This is the presence of which Jesus spoke: John 6: 53

 

[steve_b]

thanks for a quick response

curious follow up question: why are holy orders necessary for the transubstantiation to occur?

When Jesus said these words [Lk 22…]

“This is my body”
“This is my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant”
“Do ποιεῖτε ] this in memory of me”

Jesus said those words when He instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist, and by saying to the apostles, “Do this” He gave his apostles at the table the power to continue the sacrament, just as He established it. And the apostles then ordained bishops, in the line of the apostles themselves so the sacrament could continue.

How do we know this?

We have the writings of bishops who were ordained by apostles.

For example

Ignatius of Antioch. He was ordained by the apostles and he was a direct disciple of St John. Ignatius wrote this about the Eucharist

Epistle to the Philadelphians see ch 4
Epistle to the Smyrnæans see ch’s 7 & 8