Eucharist question

[rjrjrj]

Hello everyone,
I’ve read in a few places regarding a history of the Eucharist and how it can be traced back to some kind of worship to a sun god? giving reason for it being round and it also being exposed in a “sun-like” monstrance? what’s up with this??? I really do not believe this, but it has sparked an interest on the history of the Eucharist. Can anyone help me shed some light on this?
Thanks

 

[bpbasilphx]

Most of this goes back to a pseudo-historical book by Alexander Hislop called BABYLON MYSTERY RELIGION.

It’s been a gold mine for anti-Catholic polemicists such as Jack Chick.

As far as the Eucharistic Bread being round (or rather, starting off as round), most bread in the Middle East, where Christianity originated, IS round.

Consider pita, pizza, or even tortillas? How about pancakes?

Aren’t these all round breads?

 

[Hesychios]

The Eucharist derives from the Last Supper.

Jesus used Jewish table blessings, every Jewish family was familiar with them, so it’s not like the Apostles were surprised by any of it. In fact the Apostles must have had many similar meals together where the table blessings were said.

But at the Last Supper, Jesus Christ said "Do this … " and we do it.

The following is a translation of the text of the Didache, or “Teaching” (late first century):
***But concerning the Eucharist, after this fashion give ye thanks.
**
First, concerning the cup. We thank thee, our Father, for the holy vine, David thy Son, which thou hast made known unto us through Jesus Christ thy Son; to thee be the glory for ever.

And concerning the broken bread. We thank thee, our Father, for the life and knowledge which thou hast made known unto us through Jesus thy Son; to thee be the glory for ever.

As this broken bread was once scattered on the mountains, and after it had been brought together became one, so may thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth unto thy kingdom; for thine is the glory, and the power, through Jesus Christ, for ever.

And let none eat or drink of your Eucharist but such as have been baptized into the name of the Lord, for of a truth the Lord hath said concerning this, Give not that which is holy unto dogs. *

It is a fact that there were cults in the Roman empire that had similar rituals, foods of all types commonly would make up sacrifices to the gods in the ancient world. Meats, bread and wine were universal sacrificial offerings.

But Jesus, all of the Apostles (initially 12), all of the disciples (initially thought to be 72 plus families, but likely more), other friends and hangers-on and the first several thousand converts were Jews.

Jesus had no need to borrow a ritual from an alien cult (or cults). All the elements of the eucharist were present and commonly known in the homes and synagogs of first century Jews. The first Christians were simply fulfilled Jews.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Hesychios]

The Eucharist derives from the Last Supper.

Jesus used Jewish table blessings, every Jewish family was familiar with them, so it’s not like the Apostles were surprised by any of it. In fact the Apostles must have had many similar meals together where the table blessings were said.

But at the Last Supper, Jesus Christ said "Do this … " and we do it.

The following is a translation of the text of the Didache, or “Teaching” (late first century):
***But concerning the Eucharist, after this fashion give ye thanks.
**
First, concerning the cup. We thank thee, our Father, for the holy vine, David thy Son, which thou hast made known unto us through Jesus Christ thy Son; to thee be the glory for ever.

And concerning the broken bread. We thank thee, our Father, for the life and knowledge which thou hast made known unto us through Jesus thy Son; to thee be the glory for ever.

As this broken bread was once scattered on the mountains, and after it had been brought together became one, so may thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth unto thy kingdom; for thine is the glory, and the power, through Jesus Christ, for ever.

And let none eat or drink of your Eucharist but such as have been baptized into the name of the Lord, for of a truth the Lord hath said concerning this, Give not that which is holy unto dogs. *

It is a fact that there were cults in the Roman empire that had similar rituals, foods of all types commonly would make up sacrifices to the gods in the ancient world. Meats, bread and wine were universal sacrificial offerings.

But Jesus, all of the Apostles (initially 12), all of the disciples (initially thought to be 70 plus possible families, but likely more), other friends and hangers-on and the first several thousand converts were Jews.

Jesus had no need to borrow a ritual from an alien cult (or cults). All the elements of the eucharist were present and commonly known in the homes and synagogs of first century Jews. The first Christians were simply fulfilled Jews.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[diggerdomer]

Hello everyone,
I’ve read in a few places regarding a history of the Eucharist and how it can be traced back to some kind of worship to a sun god? giving reason for it being round and it also being exposed in a “sun-like” monstrance? what’s up with this??? I really do not believe this, but it has sparked an interest on the history of the Eucharist. Can anyone help me shed some light on this?
Thanks

Where did you read such…things (nonsense)? If you can give us more info we could better respond. Thanks.

 

[ProVobis]

As far as the Eucharistic Bread being round (or rather, starting off as round), most bread in the Middle East, where Christianity originated, IS round.

Consider pita, pizza, or even tortillas? How about pancakes?

Aren’t these all round breads?

I’ve often wondered about that. It would have had to be flat in order for Christ to have broken it, one would think? We don’t normally “break” bread when we eat; we slice it or tear it apart, probably because of the Western configuration. Interesting thread.

 

[rjrjrj]

Where did you read such…things (nonsense)? If you can give us more info we could better respond. Thanks.

I have heard it used in a few anti-catholic debates and I read it a long time ago, don’t remember where. But I’m sure the history, regardless, is interesting.

 

[PJM]

=rjrjrj;6053731]Hello everyone,
I’ve read in a few places regarding a history of the Eucharist and how it can be traced back to some kind of worship to a sun god? giving reason for it being round and it also being exposed in a “sun-like” monstrance? what’s up with this??? I really do not believe this, but it has sparked an interest on the history of the Eucharist. Can anyone help me shed some light on this?
Thanks

***My dear friend in Christ,

What you report in nothing more than another attempt to expain the “unexplainable” from a purely human perspective.

It’s far more than "if I can’t see it, I’m not going to believe it.[The Saint Thomas the Doubter complex] which denies that “we walk by Faith and NOT by sight,” and in an absolute sense are in need of God’s grace [if not why does grace exist?]

Because by "GOOGLING “Eucharistic Mysteries” one is able in a sense to do a Jesus invited Thoms to do: “put your fingure in My hand, and you’re Fist into My side.”… One is actually able to view pyhsical evidence of the reality of Christ Real resence.

Despite Five authors of the New Testament, four of whom where “eye wittness” to the miracle [an unexplainable physical happening], yet accept manna in the desert, water from the rock, the two mutiplications of Bread, raising of Lazurus from the dead, ect., ect, they choose to discount the very explicit words of God in John Chapter six, “TRULY, TRULY I [JESUS] TELL YOU… ‘My Body is Real Food… My Blood is REAL drink’…” and the evidence of four Apostles who gave there lives in belief of this Dogma.

An Incomprehensible lack of faith! For if God who can be describes as “all and every good thing perfected,” knowing that Jesus is God and therefore the untimate GOOD, God has the Power to do this. So can God do this is not the question; rather why would God freely choose to do this is what needs to be asked?

The answer is…

Because by Christ life, death and Ressurection God did not save every man, women and child throughout history, which remains His desire.

Because By His passion and death Christ effected our Reedemption [made Heaven once again a possibility]

Because Humanity is sinful by nature. [See 1 Jn. 1: 8-10, 1 Jn. 5: 16-17 and John 20:19-23], and God who is always going to extremes to be in relationship with us, to aid us in our freewill strugle to accept and provide what is necessary for our Salvation.

Because God tells us in Mt. 28:20 that He Jesus "will be with us “always”

Because God is LOVE, andf knows that love begets love. As John of the Cross said: “where you don’t find Love, put Love, and then you will find Love.”

Because there is and can be NO GREATER SOURCE OF LOVE than the Glorified, Risen Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Himeself.

What you heard is just one of many excuses NOT to believe God! How very sad

Love and prayers,

Pat

---

 

[diggerdomer]

I have heard it used in a few anti-catholic debates and I read it a long time ago, don’t remember where. But I’m sure the history, regardless, is interesting.

Interesting, perhaps. But is it relevant? Or factual?

 

[peary1]

Hello everyone,
I’ve read in a few places regarding a history of the Eucharist and how it can be traced back to some kind of worship to a sun god? giving reason for it being round and it also being exposed in a “sun-like” monstrance? what’s up with this??? I really do not believe this, but it has sparked an interest on the history of the Eucharist. Can anyone help me shed some light on this?
Thanks

It’s a case of reinventing the wheel (no pun intended). This had to do with missionary work in the early Church and having the missionaries take the Eucharist with them in their work. It was much easier to use a small round wafer for theological reasons concerning the True Presence. The bread is strictly unleavened, no matter in what shape it is found, made of wheat flour and water, nothing added. It is closest to the unleavened bread of the Seder meal. It is round because God has no beginning or ending. The monstrance is a vessel that is used to hold the Eucharist. It is used in Catholic, Old Catholic, Anglican, and Lutheran churches.

There’s a good explanation and pictures on Wikipedia. Please take a look at the webpage and read the article. It is significant to one’s understanding of the matter:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monstrance