Eucharistic Miracles

[Cavaradossi]

Perhaps one can explain the purpose of reason for a Eucharistic mircacle. My understanding is the Spirit uses them to convince priests or others whose faith in the real presence is wavering.

Jon

Whether or not the bread remains bread, Christ did not say. Whether or not the bread remains bread would not limit God’s ability to perform a miracle, even a Eucharist one.

And the idea is not too Catholic for me, as I believe that anything is possible by Him.

I am not aware of any Eucharist miracles among the Orthodox, or the PNCC, or Old Catholics, (though there may be) yet their Eucharists are valid according to the CC. So, it seems your cause and effect here is faulty.

Jon

Yes, my friend. I just finished a long, detailed, and I might add circular dialogue about the issue. What I’ve found over time is that, Catholics will always express the mystery in metaphysical terms - Transubstantiation. As Lutherans, we just don’t express it in metaphysical terms. So, here it is:
You said, “What does Transunstantiation say, after all? Simply this- Even though we taste and sense with our physical senses what seems to be bread and wine, in reality it is not bread and wine any more, but Christ himself.”

I would say, *Even though we taste and sense with our physical senses what seems to be bread and wine, in reality it is Christ himself. *

Jon

Sure. I’m making no statement regarding substance and accidents. All I know is that “This [bread] is my body”. How mere bread is His body is a mystery.

Jon

Actually, Gary, I suspect that Corpus Christi processions would be quite rare among us, as we see the intention of it in the eating and drinking. OTOH, personally, it doesn’t offend, either.

Jon

Sometimes I have to remind myself that you’re not Orthodox while reading your posts, because you articulate such Orthodox opinions at times . For what it’s worth there are occasional stories of Eucharistic miracles in the Orthodox Church, and they almost always occur, as you said, when the priest doubts that the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ.

 

[Marybeloved]

You’re not slow. You’re Catholic, and you understand the Eucharist in the terms you provide. I say that’s fine. You discern the truth of the RP, and if Transub. helps you in that way, God bless. It really isn’t an issue for me, and it certainly is not the reason I remain Lutheran.

Jon

That’s fine, my friend.

For me the issue is the tendency I notice in creating all this “differences” that strike me as artificial- always either making too much of semantics and at the same time accompanied by insinuations which are misrepresentations of catholic theology. Statements like:* it remains a mystery*, made in a supposed attempt at distinguishing a certain position from the catholic one as if the Catholic position anywhere touches on the mystery being discussed. Such things are picked up from polemicism, and almost never stand up to any real scrutiny once I press examinations of these “differences” and how the other side supposedly maintains the mystery in contrast to the catholic position.

In this case, I’d say it’s all pure semantics. You can’t talk of the Eucharist without meaning that it’s reality/substance is Christ- any other position constitutes a denial of the RP.

Peace.

 

[JonNC]

Sometimes I have to remind myself that you’re not Orthodox while reading your posts, because you articulate such Orthodox opinions at times .

I take that as a very kind compliment. Thank you.

For what it’s worth there are occasional stories of Eucharistic miracles in the Orthodox Church, and they almost always occur, as you said, when the priest doubts that the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ.

Thank you for the information.
In reply to the OP then, and with tongue firmly planted in cheek, I could say that perhaps the reason there are no Eucharistic miracles amongst Lutherans is because none of our clergy have doubts about the real presence.

Jon