Europe the declining Old Christendom

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anonymous1995

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I hope it would be the right place to talk about this.

Anyone had any clue about the distribution of Catholic population, at least including nominal Catholics, in France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and other traditional Catholic countries?

I read from somewhere that even Latinos are now leaving the Church for Pentecostalism or atheism, which is worrying. 😦

How did the Church respond to the crisis (if it were)?

Some Catholic parishes in the US call for reorganisation of parish structures as well as spiritual care which fits the Latin American culture well…
 
Europe has become extremely secularised and even hostile to the Catholic Faith. Secular culture has made Catholics turn into catholics who don’t go to Mass or try not to sin. Remember, most young athiests don’t get reasoned out of it. They are just taught their Faith poorly and secular culture teaches them that the Church is bad and that abortion and fornication is good. Europe is beyond hope at this point. Spain, Ireland and Poland, some of the most Catholic countries, have all experienced MASSIVE Church attendance drops in the last 10-20 years. In the 1970s 90% of Ireland went to mass every Sunday. Now it’s 40% of Catholics, which are now only 70-80% from being nearly 100%.
 
As to Spain I can tell you that 99% of the Spanish population is catholic, however out of that number probably a 2% is a practicing catholic. It is a very sad situation but in the Spaniards case it is connected to Franco’s dictatorship

As to Portugal it also has around a 90%, and while the number of practicing catholics has declined too, Portugal still has a very high % of practicing Catholics. In comparison to the rest of Europe Portugal seems to be the one with the strongest faith.

As to Italy from the times I have been there, again while there has been a decline I still can find a good amount of practicing catholics.

As to Latin america (I am from Latin America) it is also true that a high number has moved out of the catholic faith. It is unfortunate. In most countries in Latin America the number may be around 80% or 70%. Brazil I think has declines to a 50%. Though at least when it comes to central america I can tell you that out of the 80% catholic, 65% is heavily practicing. While it is true that there is a good number of catholics moving to other faiths the difference with the US is that people tend to be cafeteria catholics.

Unlike the US where cafeteria Catholics remain in the church in Latin america if someone is not in agreement with the church’s teaching they move to a more accepting church. So while there is a decline the number of practicing Catholics remain the same, churches still remain.

But then again there is a huge pressure from anti life groups to change the traditional values and a huge attack against the church in Latin America so it is still a ortisome and I think the church needs a lot of praying. In my native central american country I can tell you that there is massive fight again outside influences and anti Catholicism and that the local church has become very strict and has been attacking back. The church locally has been very engages in manifestations and public action and not that long ago they choose a very conservative pro life president so the church was extremely happy. Personally I was quite happy too.

But on a global level I am not sure if the church is taking too much action as to this issue. Unfortunately the church tends to take a back position and just allow attacks without responding which is why I think they lost too many people in Europe. Personally I think we need to pray a lot for the church and be more proactive.
 
Pax Christi!

“In Portugal the faith will always be preserved.” - Our Lady of Fatima.

There is always hope. Pray for faith. Individuals can always be protected.

God bless.
 
Looking back at the 2000 years history of the Church, I’m still baffled that she not only stands, but actually has flourished. Our Catholic faith tells us the Church will go through a time of tribulation and chastisement.

It was not a coincidence Christ was persecuted and suffered for our redemption and chance of salvation . Our Lords words have been prophetically true. The Church will endure until the end of time, and the gates of Hell will not prevail against her. So far so good. Those who are outside the Body of Christ who have not received this promise have a whole lot more to worry than us Catholics, so pray for them

A smaller united universal Church. Time tested that’s endured every possible man made and natural form of destruction vs a larger, divided , disjointed church who’s left hand doesn’t know what its right hand is doing or believing in. There isn’t much to worry about unless you doubt the Lords promise. Be thankful of the gift of faith you were given. Strengthen the Body of Christ by sharing the truths of our faith and carrying the cross. The Church will be the only one standing when it’s all said and done.
 
A critical truth was lost in understanding why so many left the church or are not even interested in the Catholic faith. We can always speak about the truths of our faith, but in so doing the teacher or even those very involved believe that the faith is passed on only by doing so. For example, a lot of traditionally Catholic countries which show a decline. CONVERSION TO FAITH IS NEVER PASSED ON. No matter how much indoctrination is given about the faith, it is not automatically conversion -making. The truths must be appropriated to one’s self, and become interior convictions that we live by because we had an personal encounter with Christ, He moved our wills to accept what we were indoctrinated with.
We fell into the trap and took for granted that if we followed all the rituals set before us, the teachings, the Sacraments, the history etc, that we are converted. No so. We do not have the power to convert, only God has. The Sacraments do impart grace, but the graces are not yet released because Jesus Christ was not acknowledge for who He is to each person.
It is the Father’s will that Jesus be first in everything It is called the pre-eminence of Jesus spoken of by St.Paul. He is the one who merited salvation for us, no one else will the Father allow to take the credit. We humans can’t help it but like to control even God. We don’t try to fit Him the box of our own making, we don’t control God but we accidentally try. It’s a human fault. This is why Evangelization is so important “The Good News” that Jesus alone is our Savior, God-man Conversion is never passed on, but the truths of our faith can be. Conversion brings with it the gift of the Holy Spirit from Jesus and the Father, His gift of love to us. Many even in the church are not converted, nominal catholics., and so it goes around the world, and even at home. There are several Popes who emphasized this truth, including St.Paul.
 
svid2, yes, you’re very right, there is always hope.

As St. Augustine lay dying in North Africa in 430 AD, the barbarians were storming his cathedral. Panic and fear swirled all around the great man’s deathbed, but he remained calm and indeed hopeful: he saw the fall of Rome and the vast changes to his civilization that he knew were occurring as an opportunity to catechize the vast hoards of barbarians from the north.

Now THAT’S faith and hope, and truly love for one’s fellow beings!

To answer the OP, my experience is that throughout Catholic Europe there is still a deep cultural Catholicism that is woven into the very fabric of the societies of Italy, Spain, Portugal, and France; but the majority of the churches are nearly empty.

Interesting thing, the long-empty churches (most of them not Catholic but Protestant) of Holland were full to overflowing in the wake of the horrible Malaysian Air disaster recently. Something ancient and deep stirred in the souls of so many and drew them back to the loving consolation and mystery of God. . . yes, there is always cause for hope!
 
I think Europe will start coming around to God soon. Having secular ideas and that of God doesn’t exist leads to more chaos. Once ISIS starts causing more damage, and the violence increases in Ukraine these people will think to themselves, oh no here we go again another major War. Its sad that they think about God only when bad things happen but I do believe that’s the fire they need to get them to God.
 
There is the Christian truth contained in our faith that states that “Jesus came to redeem us from the works of Satan.” these works cause all the human misery in the world, hatred, wars, murder, pride, greed, lust and ignorance to name some. If you can observe those countries that are in such strife, including our own have either rejected Christ, or are not knowledgeable of Him. Christ stated that “He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword”, we see this all the time in our news about wars around the world. You would think that the peoples of these countries would at least suspect some evil force was active. I do think that the calamities that are happening will lead them to some “enlightenment” It is believed that God permits evil to bring about the good, and where sin abounds grace abounds more.

We can also see why the Church condemns heresies because she sees the great harm they will do to humanity. Human pride as all pride leads to a downfall, it causes division in churches and countries. We need evangelization to spread the “Good News” that Jesus Christ is the redeemer of mankind, and no-one else. We are incapable of fighting these powerful forces that seek our destruction, physically and spiritually.
 
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