Evangalistic faceplant

[Redbaron998]

So I had a on-line run in with a Protestant that did not go so well. He kept qouting from some anti-catholic video (which I later found out to be 7th day adventist though I dont know if he was one)

Ive read a few apologitic works (Catholicism and Funadamenatlism, Essential Catholic Survivial Guide, and a couple more) and thought I was at the point I could pretty wel defend my Faith. Well I ended up providing more of a flop than a defense. One of the main reason is he was totally convinced the Catholic Church was some Christian slaughtering machine (the usual 7th day adventist shoddy scholarship) and I couldnt keep up as a whole because there were so many errors in so short a time space.

Ultimately I could have done worse, I was able to give him some real resources on history and the Church, but overall im very discouraged. I know what the truth is about the Church but when faced with such blatent ignorace of history and theology I didnt even know where to start.

Im not opposed to taking my fair share of humble pie, just discouraged at the moment.

 

[mark_a]

One of the main reason is he was totally convinced the Catholic Church was some Christian slaughtering machine (the usual 7th day adventist shoddy scholarship) and I couldnt keep up as a whole because there were so many errors in so short a time space.

Sometimes one just can’t compete with ignorance.

It’s tough bein’ th’ big dawg!

 

[Belloc_Fan]

So I had a on-line run in with a Protestant that did not go so well. He kept qouting from some anti-catholic video (which I later found out to be 7th day adventist though I dont know if he was one)

Ive read a few apologitic works (Catholicism and Funadamenatlism, Essential Catholic Survivial Guide, and a couple more) and thought I was at the point I could pretty wel defend my Faith. Well I ended up providing more of a flop than a defense. One of the main reason is he was totally convinced the Catholic Church was some Christian slaughtering machine (the usual 7th day adventist shoddy scholarship) and I couldnt keep up as a whole because there were so many errors in so short a time space.

Ultimately I could have done worse, I was able to give him some real resources on history and the Church, but overall im very discouraged. I know what the truth is about the Church but when faced with such blatent ignorace of history and theology I didnt even know where to start.

Im not opposed to taking my fair share of humble pie, just discouraged at the moment.

Three things:

1. 
   *]Pray: The goal of apologetics isn’t to be right, or to crush your opponent, but to lead him to Christ and His Church more fully. Pray for charity and wisdom before you speak, and pray that God will guide the person you’re speaking with.
   
   *]Shift the Burden: The frustration you’re facing is usual - I’d say it’s the most common source of frustration. On two areas - what Catholics believe, and what the Church has done in history - the number of misconceptions that some Protestants have can be staggering. If someone’s view of history is that wrong, it’s next to impossible to correct every false claim, and even trying to do so gets you mired in a pointless debate about people and events long past. Most of the claims aren’t even disprovable - how can you prove that the Catholic Church isn’t secretly scheming to kill all Seventh-Day Adventists, or that the Church hasn’t secretly started a moon colony? Disproving stupid things is next to impossible.
   
   So do this instead: accumulate a few resources which just talk about false Protestant histories (look at stuff on the Black Legend, about how English nationalists made up a lot of anti-Catholic history to stir up the British against their enemy, the Spanish, and about how poorly-educated Protestant conspiracy theorists in the US contributed to the growing of this mythos, and that it’s been carried on by atheists and religious liberals – there are a fair number of books on this subject, and the Thurston/Coulton debate I mention below addresses these myths somewhat). All you need to do is explain basically that a lot of what people think that they know about the Catholic Church and about Church history is false. Then explain that you love the Church as your Mother (Rev. 12:17), and that these accusations are vile and provocative. If he’s going to slander your Mother, he’d better have really good evidence on his side. So gently - and I do mean gently - insist that he support specific historical claims that he’s making. See if he’ll approach the Church as if he’d never heard of Her before. Then repeat step 1.
   
   *]Keep Reading: I’d suggest Controversies, which Karl Keating edited. It’s a pretty great illustration of how to do - and not do - apologetics, using some of the best high-level apologetics from the nineteenth and early twentieth century (Newman, Belloc, Knox, Lunn, and Thurston). Of particular interest is the debate in chapter 7, Herbert Thurston, S.J., v. G.G.Coulton. It’s fantastic, and deals a lot with history.

 

[Bluegoat]

What was your goal in speaking to this person? What were you trying to achieve?

 

[Joe_5859]

I would just say that, overall, I think such online attempts at evangelization are the least successful. Someone who is so set in their views as to take them to the internet probably won’t be swayed by a single interaction with some anonymous person, no matter how well-articulated and historically factual your response.

Think of it this way: He is looking at you the same way you are looking at him – as someone to convert. That’s not likely to move any conversation in productive directions.

There is no short-cut nor substitute for personal relationships in our evangelization efforts. Someone is not likely to convert because you out-argued them on a message board. They are more likely to convert because they take you seriously in light of the trust and friendship you share. That takes more work, but it is really the only way.

I used to go looking for fights in my zeal, but I find it’s more productive to be a resource for those who are honestly seeking and are actually looking for answers. That’s the path I’ve chosen, anyway.

 

[Dysmas1]

What was your goal in speaking to this person? What were you trying to achieve?

Seriously? The ‘goal’ is to defend the Faith. To teach people that what they hold to be true about the Church is, in fact, false. To plant the seeds of conversion, light, and truth so the Holy Spirit might move in and make things grow. The goal is apologetics. Any achievement along those lines come from the grace of God. A strange question.

 

[Bluegoat]

Seriously? The ‘goal’ is to defend the Faith. To teach people that what they hold to be true about the Church is, in fact, false. To plant the seeds of conversion, light, and truth so the Holy Spirit might move in and make things grow. The goal is apologetics. Any achievement along those lines come from the grace of God. A strange question.

Not at all. There are many times people have a very unclear idea of what they are trying to accomplish, and so they go about it in a way that is inefficient or counter-productive. Do you think Mormons on your doorstep are productive, from their POV, or do they tend to alienate people? Are they achieving their goal?

I was asking in hope that the OP might think more specifically about what he or she was trying to do. Give more information; correct misunderstandings, exemplify theological thinking, or simply witness a Christ-like life. All of these things could be productive, but sometimes they are not compatible. You probably can’t show Christ through ministering to need while at the same time arguing theology with someone.

 

[PJM]

=Redbaron998;7330231]So I had a on-line run in with a Protestant that did not go so well. He kept qouting from some anti-catholic video (which I later found out to be 7th day adventist though I dont know if he was one)

Ive read a few apologitic works (Catholicism and Funadamenatlism, Essential Catholic Survivial Guide, and a couple more) and thought I was at the point I could pretty wel defend my Faith. Well I ended up providing more of a flop than a defense. One of the main reason is he was totally convinced the Catholic Church was some Christian slaughtering machine (the usual 7th day adventist shoddy scholarship) and I couldnt keep up as a whole because there were so many errors in so short a time space.

Ultimately I could have done worse, I was able to give him some real resources on history and the Church, but overall im very discouraged. I know what the truth is about the Church but when faced with such blatent ignorace of history and theology I didnt even know where to start.

Im not opposed to taking my fair share of humble pie, just discouraged at the moment.

A few tips seem to be in order

1. Never enter into a Faith Discussion without first asking the Holy Spirit to guide you.
2. Stay in charge [chairitably]

Only the CC was founded by Jesus Christ; may I ask who founded yours and when?

I use the Catholic Bible because 1. It is the Orginal Bible and because the CC is THEE Bible Church.

Did you know? That the OT books were collected by Men known today as Catholics?
Did you know that the NT was entirely written by men known today to be Catholics?
Did you know that the entire Bible was completely written by the end of the First Century?
Did you know that when the Bible was 1. written, 2. compiled 3. placed into Canon form and 4. officially Codified that each of these acts were by thee Catholic Church?

So friend what book do you use? Who is the author. God inspired the authors of my bible.

If asked something you don’t know… tell them you’ll get back to them. [Then do i!]

If thy insist on using propagana like you suggested, ask them to PROVE what they are claiming or we can’t have a dicussion. NOT by hear-say; but with historical facts!

LEARN what we believe and WHY we can believe it!

God’ job is to CONVERT, our job is to know and share

Look for my PM,

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Alan55]

Most of us learn by trying, not doing so well, then trying some more until we improve and ultimately excel. Congratulations for getting in the game and trying. The fact is, some people cannot and will not change their thinking – or if they do, you won’t be there to witness the change.

Evangelists face the same problem: it generally takes at least eight positive experiences of Christianity before someone decides to become a Christian. That means that seven disappointed people have planted a seed, tilled the soil, and watered, yet apparently failed because they didn’t see the fruit.

If you undertake a form of Christian service, whether teaching, evangelism, serving the poor, or apologetics, you’ll get a lot more experiences of failure than of success. That’s why faith is as important as knowledge and experience.