Evangelical Pastor Wants to Become Roman Catholic

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AlmostRCC

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I am almost ready to convert to RCC… again, actually.

I’m a Protestant who made it part of the way through RCIA 14 years ago. I’m now on pastoral staff at an Evangelical church and my small family is used to living life as part of a Pastor’s family.

I want to join the One Church, but I’m nervous about my career. I am ordained, but I doubt the RCC would accept it as valid, and I doubt there would be a place for me in the celibate priesthood. I know there are exceptions, and I would love to serve as a pastor priest for a local congregation. I’ll pursue it as far as I’m allowed.

But if I can’t be a pastor anymore, what other Catholic Church vocations could I look into? I don’t make a lot of money, but I need to make enough to provide for my family. I’d love to hear your thoughts about what I could do as a full-time minister even if I’m not a pastor. Thanks!
 
In time, as a married man with pastoral experience, you may be able to discern the diaconate.
 
No.

Frankly, this would be the worst possible advice. RCIA in a parish is rarely situated, nor is it suitable, for assisting a minister of one of the communities of the Reform to come into full communion with the Roman Church.

@AlmostRCC, you have a sort of bifurcated route before you. One would be to be admitted into full communion with the Roman Church…which would mean leaving behind your present heritage, which is also your livelihood, and living as a Catholic layperson. It is along these lines that others here are talking about.

What you are essentially desiring, according to what you wrote, is access to The Pastoral Provision, which was established in 1980 by Pope Saint John Paul II, under the aegis of Cardinal Šeper of blessed memory. The Pastoral Provision was an initiative in favour of American clergy of the Anglican Communion who sought reunion with the Roman See. It extended both in scope and in geographic reach as the years passed.

It was a wonderful undertaking, I can say. The clergy whose petitions were accepted by the Holy Father were dispensed from the obligation of celibacy, remanded for a individualised cursus of study and other formation in preparation for ordination as a Catholic priest, with incardination in a host diocese where the Bishop would assign a ministry which was often, it has to be stressed, non-parochial. This was so for a variety of reasons, several being imminently practical.

Much of the work begun in 1980 was subsequently subsumed into the Personal Ordinariates – in the United Kingdom, the United States & Canada as well as Australia and other territories attached for governance to Austrialia – which were established for former Anglicans by Pope Benedict XVI. As you are apparently non-Anglican, that would not be a viable option. (If you are part of the Evangelical movement within some facet of the Anglican Communion, that opens more possibilities.)
 
But the Pastoral Provision still exists and I would counsel you to reach out to them. I am retired now but I can tell you the following:

There are currently Catholic priests, ordained under the Pastoral Provision, who were not Anglican. That was statistically rare. They were Lutherans and also Presbyterians and Methodists. There was more that was required for non-Anglicans in terms of remedying lacunae in academic and other formation…which makes for a longer path to ordination by a Catholic Bishop.

The key is, invoking the Pastoral Provision and then seeking a Bishop who would be amenable to helping you. It is important to stress that it will in part be contingent on what part of the Evangelical tradition you abide in. Where you are willing to live is also an important factor.

It is a years long process, which would involve not only you but also the receiving diocese having to help you with some sort of non-ordained employment (teaching, family life minister, etc.) through the process and while the dossier is assembled and submitted to Rome – ultimately each candidates dossier comes to Rome and before the Holy Father, for he is the only one who can issue the necessary rescript.

But I say all of this because you really need to discern this with the officials of the Pastoral Provision so that you may have full information and, if you choose, enter this process with your eyes wide open.

Life as a Roman Catholic is very different from life in the Reformed Communities for those who take up ordained ministry. The relationship of the ordained to the Bishop of the diocese is very different from relationships of the clergy of other communities. The bond of incardination, in all its intricacy and demands, needs to be thoroughly understood.

Obviously, since you have been considering this for years, you understand this it is not something to be undertaken lightly. It is also, though, something which not only you must think over, and your wife must think over, it is something you must be advised on by those who are entrusted with this Pastoral Provision as it exists in 2020 so as to have the Roman Church’s perspective in general as also in your specific situation.

I remember from my days of involvement with this initiative – I am a Catholic priest who is retired on account of age – there were many lovely successes, some less so…but also there were cases that did not work out, to put it delicately. This was very difficult for those men, who could not go back to where they had come from – the bridge was burnt – but could not find what they hoped to have in the Roman Church. Those cases I remember especially and poignantly. Priesthood in the Roman Church is a very unique undertaking.

The best place to start your inquiry and dialogue about the possibility of being part of the Pastoral Provision, and seeking the assistance of the Holy See’s Ecclesiastical Delegate in finding a Bishop willing to journey with you in this, is: The Pastoral Provision | Anglicans Becoming Catholic | Former Anglicans | Anglican Provision - Discernment
 
Father… you’re back for this, the 11th hour of CAF!!!
 
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I received a note of kind wishes from @Tis_Bearself. In re–reading it, I caught sight of this post which is along the lines of my work, once upon a time. The answer as it stood was a bit lacking but the question has momentous implications for the poster. It deserved a fuller answer as to how to proceed and resources available.

I hope you are well, @twf
 
@Don_Ruggero, hello Fr.! We have missed you more than you know. I hope you are well and ask that you would pray for all of your old friends here at CAF when you think of us. 🙂
 
Geez Father, I remember you from back before the forums changed. You were a breath of fresh air. God bless.
 
AlmostRCC said:
But if I can’t be a pastor anymore, what other Catholic Church vocations could I look into? I don’t make a lot of money, but I need to make enough to provide for my family. I’d love to hear your thoughts about what I could do as a full-time minister even if I’m not a pastor. Thanks!
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There are a variety of options at the parish level…in my days, the Americans used the term “Family Life Minister” and youth minister. That terminology is often transitory and new acronyms and terms come round every few years, it seems. Pastoral Associate was another from my day, which was used to describe a non-ordained person, whether a Religious or lay man or lay woman, who shared the pastoral care of a parish with the Parish Priest/Sacramental Minister. Those are employments and relationships that are effected at the parish level…not the level of the Bishop and rater depends on having a rapport with the priest in charge. TWF has mentioned the permanent diaconate. Chaplaincies are another possibility with more information again possible through the offices of the Pastoral Provision. Depending on your background, teaching or school administration is a possibility as is work in the chancery, the headquarters of the diocese, as a few examples.
 
I am tremendously blessed by your responses. Thank you for this specific and insightful guidance. You clearly have experience responding to cases like mine. I’m blessed knowing that many have made this journey before me, and challenged by their stories. There are so many possibilities ahead, and I’m so excited: I’m coming home to a very big house with lots of work to do, and I trust God to be the provider. The pastoral provision may not be my final road, but the idea of discerning this with my RC Church family lifts my heart. God bless you!
 
Oh good! You saw my messages, @AlmostRCC.

It has been years since Bishop Vann and I last met. He is the current Ecclesiastical Delegate of the Holy See for the United States for all that concerns the Pastoral Provision. I can say I have very good memories of him and that I found him to be kind and fair. He now has a priest secretary who is the point of contact and sees to day-to-day interfaces between the Bishop and those interested in the Pastoral Provision. I have always had great confidence in Bishop Vann, going back to his appointment long ago and far away.

It’s a major discernment for you – and attaining sponsorship of a Bishop will also be a major discernment on the part of the Church and a specific diocese, according to what is actually possible and not just theoretical.

Until the other partner in the dance is engaged, it is sort of just you thinking and pondering what might be but without any real engagement other than in your own mind.

Rather like the Bishop who receives the directives from a dicastery of the Holy See but, until a concrete person comes and present him with a petition: “I want to be a Consecrated Virgin in your diocese”…or a diocesan hermit or a member of the Pastoral Provision…these possibilities remain something theoretical and abstract for him, too. How it should be…should it be…are discerned on the part of both Bishop and applicant.

I want to be clear on this point: the default for the Pastoral Provision is some species of Anglican BUT the process has and can be used for others. That then devolves to a sponsoring Bishop who might be willing to discern with you this path. It is trying to find that Bishop as well as the pure logistics for proceeding forward for which the Pastoral Provision is key. A careful perusal of the website will make that clearer, I trust.

I assure you of my prayers. Do be sure to explore the other parts of that website.
 
twf said:
In time, as a married man with pastoral experience, you may be able to discern the diaconate.
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Out of curiosity, is there some kind of correlation between the denomination from which a minister is converting and the level of ministry to which he can be ordained in the Catholic Church? I know that Anglicans are fairly routinely ordained as priests. I know that in the UK at least, Anglican bishops have tended not to be ordained as Catholic bishops for the reason that they generally married. However, Anglican bishops who have converted seemingly are usually accorded a status virtually equivalent to being a bishop without actually being ordained (e.g. the right to wear a mitre and carry a crozier and the right to be styled “Right Reverend”, which is what bishops are known as in Britain and some other Commonwealth countries). I know that Lutherans are quite often ordained as Catholic priests in the US (we don’t really have a lot of Lutherans in the UK) as well as some others such as Methodists and Presbyterians. These are all denominations that have a fairly clear hierarchy of ordained ministers. The implication seems to be that a pastor of an evangelical church would be less likely to be ordained a priest. Is this because evangelical churches often have a rather different model of ordained ministry which doesn’t as easily correspond to Catholic holy orders?
 
EmilyAlexandra said:
Out of curiosity, is there some kind of correlation between the denomination from which a minister is converting and the level of ministry to which he can be ordained in the Catholic Church?
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Generally there would be no limit on any male being ordained a deacon.

Any unmarried male convert could conceivably become a priest and possibly later bishop.

Clerical converts from some denominations can be considered for the priesthood even though married.

Married men will never be considered for the episcopacy. However, in the special case of anglicans, a converting bishop will be ordained a priest and allowed to retain vestments and certain other stylings.
 
Yes, I should have specified that I meant a minister who is married. I guess an unmarried minister who converts is just like any other unmarried male convert. But it sounds like there are probably slightly different norms for different denominations. It sounds like an Anglican priest will probably be ordained as a priest (and an Anglican bishop would possibly be ordained as a bishop if unmarried or would be treated as a sort of courtesy bishop if married), a properly ordained minister from a major Methodist, Baptist etc denomination would possibly be up for consideration, but I am guessing the pastor a non-denominational community church that meets in a school gymnasium wouldn’t be in with much of a chance.

I guess the other thing is that a married Protestant minister could be ordained in an Eastern Catholic Church.
 
Fr. @Don_Ruggero posted above about this.

The baseline case is anglican, but it is also possible for the more “liturgical” denominations such as lutheran, methodist, and presbyterian.

He commented, I believe, that the possibilities would heavily depend upon which evangelical group.
EmilyAlexandra said:
I guess the other thing is that a married Protestant minister could be ordained in an Eastern Catholic Church.
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I really don’ t know–I’ve never heard of this happening.

I can tell you that an RC married man trying to change ritual to he EC because he wants to be ordained is ineligible for ordination. However, an RC changing to East for the East, fine with spending his life as a layman but that thinks he may have a vocation, could be ordained. (I know of a possible such case,)
 
Hello @EmilyAlexandra

There is a correlation but not quite the one you envision.

One is in formation in ministry. Obviously it is not the same but the training an Anglican priest can receive, especially in the United Kingdom but also in the United States will, classically, reflect the major elements of seminary formation of Catholics. Those priested following studies at Oxford or Cambridge can be very well prepared academically in the essential elements indeed. Anglican priests are formed for sacramental ministry.

The Anglican Roman Catholic International Commission was fundamentally important for the Pastoral Provision to be possible.


This also holds true by analogy for the Lutherans…more so on the Continent but still to a considerable degree in the United States…to the extent that there has been advance in the ecumenical dialogue and accords have been achieved. I’ve published these before in this forum.

Methodists, emerging from the English Church tradition are a further step removed. There was a lovely address by the Holy Father on the state of the dialogue some time back; I don’t have occasion to follow those developments as closely, least of all in retirement.

The issues that arise in communities beyond that is the distance of the concepts of Eucharist, ordained ministry, the gift and service of authority in the Church as well as in the understanding of ecclesiology and sacramental ministry and liturgical worship.

It is true that Anglican Bishops who are received into full communion with the Roman Church are not ordained to the episcopate when married. What does happen is that they are ordained priest and, by a personal gift of the Holy Father, are named as Protonotaries Apostolic, the highest rank of honorary prelates that are part of the papal household.

The gift of this dignity allows them to retain the bishop’s choir cassock, the title of Right Reverend and Monsignor, and they are extended the use of the pontificals…that is the mitre, ring, and pectoral cross, which was the right and privilege of all Protonotaries Apostolic in previous eras. Except they get zucchetto as currently worn by Bishops…not the old one used by the Monsignors of days past.
 
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Continued

The current Ordinary of the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham for the United Kingdom, Monsignor Keith Newton, who was formerly an Anglican Bishop, has all the functions of a diocesan bishop while not himself ordained a Bishop, rather like certain Vicars Apostolic who are elevated without being consecrated Bishop. Monsignor Newton uses the crozier and the cathedra/throne as the Ordinary for the Ordinariate – a jurisdiction that crosses diocesan boundaries for the governance of all who are within its jurisdiction – and he can also issue dimissorial letters for the ordination of deacons and priests destined to be incardinated in the Personal Ordinariate. A Bishop having such will then proceed to confer the ordination of deacon or priest at the invitation of the Ordinary.

Interestingly, the current Ordinary of the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of Saint Peter in the United States was a celibate priest who worked at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on issues related to the Pastoral Provision and the formation of the Ordinariates in years past. He is not a convert but a cradle Catholic, chosen by the Pope to be the Ordinary so he was eligible to receive Episcopal Ordination when he was nominated Ordinary…so he ordains his clergy himself rather than having recourse to the issuing of dimissorial letters.

This is, by the way, the procedure also for Abbots and other major superiors of men’s clerical institutes of perfection whose clergy do not belong to a diocese but to the institute to which they professed vows. Abbots and major superiors are typically priests but their offices allow them to issue dimissorial letters for their own subjects to be ordained by a Bishop and to be incardinated in the monastery…Benedictine, Cistercian, etc…or institute of perfection…the Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites and so forth.

The former Anglican Bishops are also entitled to sit in the Conference of Bishops with the rights and privileges equivalent in law to a retired Bishop.

Finally, I’d also point out that the present Catholic Bishop of East Anglia, Alan Hopes, was an Anglican Priest. He became Roman Catholic and was ordained for Catholic ministry in the 1990s and subsequently was appointed Auxiliary Bishop of the Catholic Archdiocese of Westminster and subsequently named by the Pope as Bishop of East Anglia. If my memory still serves me, he took his theology degrees/formation in view of priesting from King’s College London and then from Warminster.

My. That’s quite a trip down Memory Lane!
 
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