Evangelical's..are they still a arm of Conservative Parties?

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Well I’m totally OUT with the same-sex unions. I wouldn’t be ok with those on a dare…😛
JohnnyReb said:
Yeah I do believe we have had this discussion before and are of like mind. I am not surprised in the least you agree with me of course. I try not to fault those to the left or right of me, but God knows I could listen better sometimes. I am certainly and odd fellow in some respects-I mean how many people are like me,pro-life, pro-same sex civil unions? Thats a lonely place to be in any part of the church. Romans 14 comes quickly to mind.
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
Well I’m totally OUT with the same-sex unions. I wouldn’t be ok with those on a dare…😛
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Oh no you didn’t boyfriend…😃

Ok now being serious, interesting choice of words, LOL. Just to clarify, I do not believe gay “marriages” to be sacramental in nature at all. I also believe same sex intercourse to be outside of the boundries that God has sex up for human sexuality.
 
Ya lost me bruthah…
JohnnyReb said:
Oh no you didn’t boyfriend…😃

Ok now being serious, interesting choice of words, LOL. Just to clarify, I do not believe gay “marriages” to be sacramental in nature at all. I also believe same sex intercourse to be outside of the boundries that God has sex up for human sexuality.
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
Ya lost me bruthah…
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I’m not sure a detailed explaination is fitting here…not wanting to derail the discussion. Also, there is a discussion in the moral theology section I have been a part of that goes into more detail.
 
Oh I’m too lazy to go clear over there…😛
JohnnyReb said:
I’m not sure a detailed explaination is fitting here…not wanting to derail the discussion. Also, there is a discussion in the moral theology section I have been a part of that goes into more detail.
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waxwing said:
I recently got to watching James Robison’s program in the morning before going to work, he had Eric Metaxas the author of a recent Dietrich Bonhoeffer book on recently and have been watching periodically ever since. Recently he had Rick Perry the Governor of Texas on and was surprised at the gushing and whole hearted support of the man and/or party. This coincides with some of my out town Evangelical family coming to visit some of my family that live my town (also Protestant) anyways, was invited to come to their service which I did as a sign of family unity (didn’t cause me to miss my Catholic obligation) and after the service talk of politics came up and everyone had uniformly said we’re praying for the Conservative Party to win election, I live in Canada and had election recently, I just sat their silently thinking two things, nothing has changed, and secondly I wonder if down the street the Anglican or the Presbyterian Church are praying for the other party? 🙂

I thought is it part and parcel to be a good Evangelical Chrisitan you need to vote for a specific party?

Lastly to those not familiar with Canadian Politics, the Conservative Party is much more about fiscal issues rather than the usual hot button social issues you have in the States
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Yes Evangelicals (I was a former one) tend to vote conservative. Usually abortion, taxes, gay marriage and national defense (they’re largely pro-Military) are the issues that keep them in the conservative camp.

I know some (read: a handful of) Evangelicals that are more in tuned with social justice issues (whether by choice or by circumstance) and tend to vote for democrats.

Either way, every now and then we’re faced with the dilemma of having to choose between the lesser of two evils. But I like what our bishop, The Most Reverend J. Terry Steib, S.V.D., had to say about our voting dilemma here in the states:

Being Catholic has never been known to be an easy path to salvation. Jesus never promised us a rose garden devoid of hard choices. He did, in fact, tell us that if we were to be his followers, we must pick up the cross daily and follow him. Part of the cross in the upcoming election may well be in realizing that different people may in good conscience arrive at different decisions about how they will vote. 👍
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
My wife has two weeks of nursing semester one left…she’s counting the days! Poor girl…
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I feel for her man, we’re done. I’m finished until fall. The last two weeks were the most stressful. You’re a good man for supporting her through this, she’s going to need it.
 
She has been on the verge of cracking like an egg a few times. It’s pushed her buttons and stressed her out, and this is only the first semester! Semester two is supposed to be akin to the Bay of Pigs LOL!
JohnnyReb said:
I feel for her man, we’re done. I’m finished until fall. The last two weeks were the most stressful. You’re a good man for supporting her through this, she’s going to need it.
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Sufjon said:
I think what you are saying is an analog of what I see in the United States, in that there is a relationship between conservative parties and Evangelical Christians. I think that many conservatives pander to fundamentalist Christian values in order to get elected, but in truth, they have no intention of actually doing anything once elected. That was very evident in the 2004 general elections where social issues were used as a wedge to help one party prevail. They railed against homosexuality and abortion, and of course after the election, everything went on as before. They use these issues to get votes.

The problem with that is twofold. Firstly, it detracts from the real issues like wars and poverty and the like. Secondly, it is well known by these candidates that congress can’t and won’t end abortion, because you can’t write a law that violates constitutional rights. Abortion will never be outlawed on the basis of morality or the right to life, because the right to an abortion was defined by the Supreme Court as being based on the the idea that the right of privacy as defined in the constitution is broad enough to encompass a woman’s decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy.

So when a candidate tells you that he or she will fight to end abortion, they are pretty much taking advantage of you. They turn around and ignore the issues you voted them in office for, whilst actually working against what you stand for. I was glad to see the Professors at Catholic University call House Speaker John Boehner on his dealings in a letter issued to him recently, which said:

"“Mr. Speaker, your voting record is at variance from one of the Church’s most ancient moral teachings,” the letter says. “From the apostles to the present, the Magisterium of the Church has insisted that those in power are morally obliged to preference the needs of the poor. Your record in support of legislation to address the desperate needs of the poor is among the worst in Congress. "

Good stuff!

Your friend
Sufjon

Your friend
Sufjon
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I agree with a lot of this, I do think their is fair bit of pandering and stroking the ego of the religious right on these issues with no intention dealing with these matters. I’m Canadian so don’t know all inner workings of how US Govt works, but IF I knew they were serious about getting rid of abortion and their the other issues such as treatment of the poor, labour issues, environmental issues, crime and punishment issues, etc etc were going to be handled in fair, compassionate manner. I would gladly vote for the party to end abortion. I am firmly against this practice. But I am also cynical and think they will continue to use these issues as wedges and voting motivation tools come election time.
 
The Republicans have used the abortion issue for years as a wedge issue to make sure Christians stay firmly on board. It works. And many of them in reality could care less. Given that it’s constitutionally-protected and if made illegal would criminalize the woman for having an abortion, and that our jails and prisons (especially here in California!!) are packed to the rafters with criminals, I don’t see it happening. What some GOP politicians have done successfully is to make abortions harder to get, require parental consent, require women to see an ultrasound prior to an abortion, and to just restrict access.
waxwing said:
I agree with a lot of this, I do think their is fair bit of pandering and stroking the ego of the religious right on these issues with no intention dealing with these matters. I’m Canadian so don’t know all inner workings of how US Govt works, but IF I knew they were serious about getting rid of abortion and their the other issues such as treatment of the poor, labour issues, environmental issues, crime and punishment issues, etc etc were going to be handled in fair, compassionate manner. I would gladly vote for the party to end abortion. I am firmly against this practice. But I am also cynical and think they will continue to use these issues as wedges and voting motivation tools come election time.
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
The Republicans have used the abortion issue for years as a wedge issue to make sure Christians stay firmly on board. It works. And many of them in reality could care less. Given that it’s constitutionally-protected and if made illegal would criminalize the woman for having an abortion, and that our jails and prisons (especially here in California!!) are packed to the rafters with criminals, I don’t see it happening. What some GOP politicians have done successfully is to make abortions harder to get, require parental consent, require women to see an ultrasound prior to an abortion, and to just restrict access.
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Touching upon the overcrowing prison problem in the States, I don’t think the abortion issue can be addressed in isolation, as much I get squeamish using this term :), a holistic approach should be taken, including addressing the justice system, health care system, educations system. I often hear pro choice folk throw out the, you guys want to protect life but as soon as the baby is born your on your own. Think does have some merit and should be addressed within the pro life worldview.

Glad to see the GOP has been successfull in making abortion harder to get, maybe in the time it takes to go through the extra steps - some women have had change of hearts
 
Everything is reflective of the culture, sadly. Like in my job as a public education sixth grade teacher…the parents are mostly either divorced multiple times, one parent is incarcerated, parents are cohabitating. or they are on drugs. You might have five married couples as parents in your classroom.

Now, given that, we can have all the solutions we want from vouchers to more $$$ and higher standards and more testing, but if parents are going to live like this and the family is going to collapse, that kid is in deep trouble…

Same thing with abortion. We can ban it, condemn it, hate it, but the culture at large wants it and is feeding it with all the illicit sex and lack of respect for chastity. It boils down to a breakdown of Christian morality in the home and in the culture. Banning it won’t change the SOURCE of the problem. It’s like putting a bandaid on a beheading.

Souls, hearts, minds must be changed in order for a difference to be made.

We get all mad about the death penalty and mistreatment of prisoners and the prison situation but we don’t think of what is getting these guys and women to turn into fellons and get sent there? A lack of Christian morality in the home and community. We can’t build a million prisons, fund the heck out of em but they’ll keep coming…

Hearts and minds need to be changed or banning abortion, building more prisons, trying vouchers and high-stakes test-taking and punishing teachers and all that is just folly…
waxwing said:
Touching upon the overcrowing prison problem in the States, I don’t think the abortion issue can be addressed in isolation, as much I get squeamish using this term :), a holistic approach should be taken, including addressing the justice system, health care system, educations system. I often hear pro choice folk throw out the, you guys want to protect life but as soon as the baby is born your on your own. Think does have some merit and should be addressed within the pro life worldview.

Glad to see the GOP has been successfull in making abortion harder to get, maybe in the time it takes to go through the extra steps - some women have had change of hearts
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
Everything is reflective of the culture, sadly. Like in my job as a public education sixth grade teacher…the parents are mostly either divorced multiple times, one parent is incarcerated, parents are cohabitating. or they are on drugs. You might have five married couples as parents in your classroom.

Now, given that, we can have all the solutions we want from vouchers to more $$$ and higher standards and more testing, but if parents are going to live like this and the family is going to collapse, that kid is in deep trouble…

Same thing with abortion. We can ban it, condemn it, hate it, but the culture at large wants it and is feeding it with all the illicit sex and lack of respect for chastity. It boils down to a breakdown of Christian morality in the home and in the culture. Banning it won’t change the SOURCE of the problem. It’s like putting a bandaid on a beheading.

Souls, hearts, minds must be changed in order for a difference to be made.

We get all mad about the death penalty and mistreatment of prisoners and the prison situation but we don’t think of what is getting these guys and women to turn into fellons and get sent there? A lack of Christian morality in the home and community. We can’t build a million prisons, fund the heck out of em but they’ll keep coming…

Hearts and minds need to be changed or banning abortion, building more prisons, trying vouchers and high-stakes test-taking and punishing teachers and all that is just folly…
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I agree with all of the above, but its a lot easier as well being more expensive to build the prisons, to experiment with the education system, and to pass legislation (even if its the the right thing to do) etc than to change the hearts and minds of the people. The changing of the hearts of men and women is whole another discussion.
 
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