Evangelising your agnostic colleagues

[John_of_Woking]

Dear good Forummers

Have you recently tried to consciously bring anyone to the sacraments and the truth of Christ’s Church?

It struck me that for the last five years I have failed utterly in this regard . I mean I haven’t even tried.

I mean sure I pray for my non Catholic pals and family members at Mass and in private devotions. Yeah I have been relatively good at speaking up when a defence of my faith or the moral teachings of the Church are required.

But, do I seek out daily the opportunites to preach the Gospel? Not just by actions but words

No - I am too much of a coward.:frighten:

I mean I love Jesus.I should go up to my boss (and your boss!) tomorrow and preach about God’s love (and maybe even Hell). Will I - or is my payrise at stake? whimper

Next time someone says OMG - should I tell them they are blaspheming and to quit the reprehensible practice. Will I? pin drop

The friends living in sin? Will I warn them?

chicken noises

I sometimes wonder… will it be goats noises I am hearing at judgment day as I shuffle in the line of the accursed…

God’s light is hidden under the bushel of my fear…

So back to the question…When was the last time your co-workers (maybe the board of directors or your relativist best mate) heard about the Gospel from your lips?

Concrete examples welcome

 

[crazzeto]

I’ve been trying to guide an agnostic friend to the sacraments, it’s been a long process and to be perfectly honest if I’ve made any headway at all it’s been nearly invisible. At least she’s willing to come to bible study and some young adult events with my wife and I… But I continue to pray for her, and place my trust in the Lord to call her.

 

[John_of_Woking]

I’ve been trying to guide an agnostic friend to the sacraments, it’s been a long process and to be perfectly honest if I’ve made any headway at all it’s been nearly invisible. At least she’s willing to come to bible study and some young adult events with my wife and I… But I continue to pray for her, and place my trust in the Lord to call her.

Some people say it is all about “sowing a seed” and “leading by Christian example”. Some say God often does not allow you to see the fruits of your evangelisation so as to protect your humility.

These are all fair points but I sometimes wonder whether the Lord does not want “meek and mild John” to grab the bull by the Horns and preach the Good news (all of it not just the honey). Yes I may lose friends and get the “nutter” look but at least when we’re dead I won’t have all these people in hell looking down on me in some more painful Infernal circle (more stripes - more knowledge) shrieking out “John why didn’t you warn me? Why did you not preach Christ Crucifed?”

Anyway, Sounds like you are making progress Crazetto. I will pray for the good work you do for Christ. At least you are making the effort - if it is rejected no one can say you haven’t tried.

Meanwhile back on planet John…

camera pans to my office tomorrow morning and the lift doors are closing as I begin my ascent to level 2

In the lift it’s just me and new office colleague Barry…

“Morning John - So what did you think about the cricket yesterday?”

Me: "Yeah mate good game I can’t believe Davies brought up his maiden century off only 127 balls…

face turns serious - In a hushed voice… “Are you saved?”

Don’t worry I am*** not*** using that one!

 

[shom-bms]

I’ve found that one of the easiest ways to talk to people about God is to look for an opening when people start to talk about the problems in their life. This can work either with people you know or even with strangers you happen to encounter. When you’re standing in line at a store or seated on an airplane and someone strikes up a conversation, try to turn the conversation to the subject of God.

For example, people love to talk about problems with their health, their work, their children, their finances, etc. These are great opportunities to tell them about a time when you were facing a problem and solved it with prayer. You can remind them of God’s incredible love and concern and point 'em toward the Problem-Solver. If they claim to believe in God but He isn’t an active part of their daily life, they may never have thought to try prayer and may take the suggestion to heart.

Sometimes they’ll respond by telling you why they don’t believe in God or don’t want a relationship with Him. It may be that they’ve suffered some tragedy such as the loss of a loved one and can’t accept that a loving God would have allowed it. Or maybe they’re having trouble reconciling the events in Scripture with science. Or maybe they’ve left the Catholic Church because some teaching of the Church (such as on abortion or the all-male priesthood) disagrees with their way of thinking. These kinds of things are “mental strongholds” blocking the knowledge of God and a prayer warrior can tear them down. (See 2 Cor 10:3-5) You can begin praying for this person daily with a prayer like: “Lord, I pray for my brother and I come against this stronghold of rejecting God’s love because of a past tragedy. I attack it in the name of Jesus, under the banner of his Precious Blood. Let it fall like the walls of Jericho.”

 

[John_of_Woking]

I’ve found that one of the easiest ways to talk to people about God is to look for an opening when people start to talk about the problems in their life. This can work either with people you know or even with strangers you happen to encounter. When you’re standing in line at a store or seated on an airplane and someone strikes up a conversation, try to turn the conversation to the subject of God.

For example, people love to talk about problems with their health, their work, their children, their finances, etc. These are great opportunities to tell them about a time when you were facing a problem and solved it with prayer. You can remind them of God’s incredible love and concern and point 'em toward the Problem-Solver. If they claim to believe in God but He isn’t an active part of their daily life, they may never have thought to try prayer and may take the suggestion to heart.

Sometimes they’ll respond by telling you why they don’t believe in God or don’t want a relationship with Him. It may be that they’ve suffered some tragedy such as the loss of a loved one and can’t accept that a loving God would have allowed it. Or maybe they’re having trouble reconciling the events in Scripture with science. Or maybe they’ve left the Catholic Church because some teaching of the Church (such as on abortion or the all-male priesthood) disagrees with their way of thinking. These kinds of things are “mental strongholds” blocking the knowledge of God and a prayer warrior can tear them down. (See 2 Cor 10:3-5) You can begin praying for this person daily with a prayer like: “Lord, I pray for my brother and I come against this stronghold of rejecting God’s love because of a past tragedy. I attack it in the name of Jesus, under the banner of his Precious Blood. Let it fall like the walls of Jericho.”

Strangers are often more open. Perhaps they feel like they can open up and have nothing to lose. I used to evangelise in Guildford High Street with a Franciscan Friar… He used to just kneel there with a cross or an icon of Christ. A symbol of poverty amidst the city stockbrokers and investment bankers. The Cross would touch a chord (often no words were necessary) and people would open up - perhaps prompted by a recongition of their spritual impoverishment. Sometimes there’d be a violent response but at least the Cross was there. A sign of contradiction. I miss that side of street evangelisation. i found it real tough but no way near as tough as telling your close friends to repent and believe the Gospel over a pint of beer or at a dinner party

 

[John_of_Woking]

I’ve been trying to guide an agnostic friend to the sacraments, it’s been a long process and to be perfectly honest if I’ve made any headway at all it’s been nearly invisible. At least she’s willing to come to bible study and some young adult events with my wife and I… But I continue to pray for her, and place my trust in the Lord to call her.

Good work - will pray. If she’s willing to come to Bible study that is a big step. Just make sure the commentaries are good. Maybe try Lectio Divina Anyhoo sounds you are doing a great job and I wil pray for you all

A quick appendix re: bible studies : Make sure you don’t delve too deep into historical critcism…This can demolish some-one’s faith in one fell swoop . You don’t want people getting bogged down in Markan primacy or everything being labelled midrash and myth.

 

[crazzeto]

Good work - will pray. If she’s willing to come to Bible study that is a big step. Just make sure the commentaries are good. Maybe try Lectio Divina Anyhoo sounds you are doing a great job and I wil pray for you all

A quick appendix re: bible studies : Make sure you don’t delve too deep into historical critcism…This can demolish some-one’s faith in one fell swoop . You don’t want people getting bogged down in Markan primacy or everything being labelled midrash and myth.

My parish uses the Catholic Scripture Study series, they’re aboslutly top notch.

 

[jimcav]

Great thread John of Woking! I love your sense of humor!

Among many fallen away Catholics on my job and in my life that I talk to about faith when I can, I have a foreman on the job that really stands out because he lives a completely God-less, adulterous life. Married, yet fools around with different girls all the time. I actually think his wife knows all about it and is OK with it! Great guy, fun loving and a good father, but God-less.

I talk to him when I see an opening and subtely let him know his lifestyle is flat-out wrong. He might be living life the way he wants, but he is certainly not living it the way God wants. I usually quote saints when I can. The saints really had it all figured out! No sense in me trying to re-invent the wheel so-to-speak! I actually carry the book The Imitation of Christ by a monk named Kempis to work with me. I can use this book all day against my friends lifestyle - and I do! He tells me a story and I find a verse by Kempis to show him the err of his ways. It is an amazing work and I highly recommend it’s use for people like my foreman.

Well, I have to say, after many months of talking to him, he often tells me how he could have had a woman last night, but he thought of me and couldn’t do it! I’m ecstatic that I am now getting in the way of his sinful pleasure. It does my heart much good, but I tell him don’t do it not because I say you shouldn’t, don’t do it because God says you shouldn’t! No conversion yet, but maybe someday!

My advice, don’t push. Just find subtle openings and give Godly advice. Use the examples of the saints. Remember, most people today havn’t had good, solid religious advice given to them since they were children, so go easy - but get going! Good luck!

 

[Mr.Blank1.5]

But, do I seek out daily the opportunites to preach the Gospel? Not just by actions but words

No - I am too much of a coward.

I mean I love Jesus.I should go up to my boss (and your boss!) tomorrow and preach about God’s love (and maybe even Hell). Will I - or is my payrise at stake? whimper

Next time someone says OMG - should I tell them they are blaspheming and to quit the reprehensible practice. Will I? pin drop

The friends living in sin? Will I warn them?

chicken noises

I sometimes wonder… will it be goats noises I am hearing at judgment day as I shuffle in the line of the accursed…

God’s light is hidden under the bushel of my fear…

Are these legitimate fears of yours, or are some of them exxagerations? I admit that I do have similar dillemas like them.

 

[John_of_Woking]

Great thread John of Woking! I love your sense of humor!

Among many fallen away Catholics on my job and in my life that I talk to about faith when I can, I have a foreman on the job that really stands out because he lives a completely God-less, adulterous life. Married, yet fools around with different girls all the time. I actually think his wife knows all about it and is OK with it! Great guy, fun loving and a good father, but God-less.

I talk to him when I see an opening and subtely let him know his lifestyle is flat-out wrong. He might be living life the way he wants, but he is certainly not living it the way God wants. I usually quote saints when I can. The saints really had it all figured out! No sense in me trying to re-invent the wheel so-to-speak! I actually carry the book The Imitation of Christ by a monk named Kempis to work with me. I can use this book all day against my friends lifestyle - and I do! He tells me a story and I find a verse by Kempis to show him the err of his ways. It is an amazing work and I highly recommend it’s use for people like my foreman.

Well, I have to say, after many months of talking to him, he often tells me how he could have had a woman last night, but he thought of me and couldn’t do it! I’m ecstatic that I am now getting in the way of his sinful pleasure. It does my heart much good, but I tell him don’t do it not because I say you shouldn’t, don’t do it because God says you shouldn’t! No conversion yet, but maybe someday!

My advice, don’t push. Just find subtle openings and give Godly advice. Use the examples of the saints. Remember, most people today havn’t had good, solid religious advice given to them since they were children, so go easy - but get going! Good luck!

Good work brother…

I have Thomas A Kempis’s masterpiece. It has been gathering dust on the shelf - but in fairness I have been poring over ‘Intro to the Devout Life’ by St. Francis De Sales .

God gave me a few opportunities this past week. I advised I couldn’t sponsor my a colleagues charity fund raise due to the fact they would not categorically prohibit use of embryonic stem cells. Also I have recently extolled Naturally Family Planning.

I have come to a conclusion - its best to either be quiet or offer a robust defence - a lukewarm equivocating exposition of one’s faith is the worst one can do. When I’m feeling low or weak I will just offer some quiet prayers…When I’m feeling less self-absorbed and the Lord gives me strength to step outside of my comfort zone I will speak out.

Sounds like you have done a good job showing the foreman that sin will ultimately make him miserable. Truly our Happiness comes from God alone. Sometimes hardened sinners do need a jolt…and that’s when God as Just Judge is exhorted!

Sometimes people are grateful for this even in our day and age. A good friend recently accused me of believing he will go to Hell. I said “I’m really worried that both me and you are going there!” I have never given him the answer he wants in this regard i.e. annihilation at death but I am delighted when he raises the topic as for me it is an opening to offer him a glimpse of the Divine Mercy but also the consequences of Divine Justice and free will…(so yes even in this day and age old nick is wheeled out from time to time )

 

[John_of_Woking]

Are these legitimate fears of yours, or are some of them exxagerations? I admit that I do have similar dillemas like them.

I think its in my DNA to be fearful. Maybe there is an infernal plan to rob me of peace. Or most likely a combination of both. Maybe as I grow in the spirtiual life my inadequacies become more glaring?

Anyhow Grace can transform nature and so I humbly implore the Lord to send me the grace to perfom His Work.

 

[John_of_Woking]

My parish uses the Catholic Scripture Study series, they’re aboslutly top notch.

I am glad you have a decent one.

I remember at Uni I lugged about a heavy tome called The New Jerome Biblical Commentary around with me…boy was it heavy.

I would read it and be like " Do we really need to spend a whole page comparing this text to some ancient sumerian legend? Am I really that fussed on Scholarly consensus regarding on this source called Q.

I then was given the excellent Navarre Bible Commentary and it actually did not rule out the possibility of miracles or even events sometimes happening as they were recorded.…a real eye opener

 

[Mr.Blank1.5]

So how does on preach the Gospel all times with words?

I have a non-religious co-worker that I talk to regularly. While I’ve made my religious affiliation clear on a couple of occasions, we’ve never really discussed anything about religion at all. I can’t seem to find opportunities to attempt to reach through.

Of course I don’t expect to convert the individual, but I want to be doing something right for God and not alienate the person.

 

[John_of_Woking]

So how does on preach the Gospel all times with words?

I have a non-religious co-worker that I talk to regularly. While I’ve made my religious affiliation clear on a couple of occasions, we’ve never really discussed anything about religion at all. I can’t seem to find opportunities to attempt to reach through.

Of course I don’t expect to convert the individual, but I want to be doing something right for God and not alienate the person.

A good opportunity at work is the “What are you doing on the weekend line?” We all know the answer…

Ahem that’s not just playing golf

 

[crazzeto]

I am glad you have a decent one.

I remember at Uni I lugged about a heavy tome called The New Jerome Biblical Commentary around with me…boy was it heavy.

I would read it and be like " Do we really need to spend a whole page comparing this text to some ancient sumerian legend? Am I really that fussed on Scholarly consensus regarding on this source called Q.

I then was given the excellent Navarre Bible Commentary and it actually did not rule out the possibility of miracles or even events sometimes happening as they were recorded.…a real eye opener

Yuck, thankfully CSS uses authoers like Dr. Scott Hahn and Steve Ray… You won’t get that secular garbage from them!

 

[John_of_Woking]

Yuck, thankfully CSS uses authoers like Dr. Scott Hahn and Steve Ray… You won’t get that secular garbage from them!

Hahn and Ray =
Raymond E Brown =
Richard Rohr = :bigyikes::console::takethat:

 

[ProveIt312]

Dear good Forummers

Have you recently tried to consciously bring anyone to the sacraments and the truth of Christ’s Church?

It struck me that for the last five years I have failed utterly in this regard . I mean I haven’t even tried.

I mean sure I pray for my non Catholic pals and family members at Mass and in private devotions. Yeah I have been relatively good at speaking up when a defence of my faith or the moral teachings of the Church are required.

But, do I seek out daily the opportunites to preach the Gospel? Not just by actions but words

No - I am too much of a coward.:frighten:

I mean I love Jesus.I should go up to my boss (and your boss!) tomorrow and preach about God’s love (and maybe even Hell). Will I - or is my payrise at stake? whimper

Next time someone says OMG - should I tell them they are blaspheming and to quit the reprehensible practice. Will I? pin drop

The friends living in sin? Will I warn them?

chicken noises

I sometimes wonder… will it be goats noises I am hearing at judgment day as I shuffle in the line of the accursed…

God’s light is hidden under the bushel of my fear…

So back to the question…When was the last time your co-workers (maybe the board of directors or your relativist best mate) heard about the Gospel from your lips?

Concrete examples welcome

The trouble with trying to convert agnostics (let alone atheists) is that they have higher standards for what they’ll accept as “truth”. Ultimately, anything can be asserted based on faith; all religions require nothing more than faith, and their followers are all equally convinced of their faith being the correct one. With this perspective, it’s hard to differentiate one superstition as more valid than another and therefore one either remains agnostic due to the lack of additional evidence supporting one over others, or they research further and usually end up dismissing theism (and usually deism as well) altogether. One who wants to know what’s true (via reason and verification rather than self-reassurance) will examine all evidence both for and against any given hypothesis and draw conclusions objectively from that. Ultimately, anything asserted absent evidence can be dismissed just as easily.

On a side note, I wonder how open you are to the idea that YOU’RE wrong. I ask this because it seems that believers desire or even expect others to be open to faith-based assertions and beliefs while actively resisting those based on reason, science or fact. Out another way, it seems perfectly reasonable to expect an atheist to allow their children to go to Sunday school, yet how many theists would allow their children to go to a secular/skeptical equivalent?

I understand your desire to share your faith with others. However, when engaging in such discussions you need to try to be as open to their position as you expect them to be to yours.

 

[John_of_Woking]

The trouble with trying to convert agnostics (let alone atheists) is that they have higher standards for what they’ll accept as “truth”. Ultimately, anything can be asserted based on faith; all religions require nothing more than faith, and their followers are all equally convinced of their faith being the correct one. With this perspective, it’s hard to differentiate one superstition as more valid than another and therefore one either remains agnostic due to the lack of additional evidence supporting one over others, or they research further and usually end up dismissing theism (and usually deism as well) altogether. One who wants to know what’s true (via reason and verification rather than self-reassurance) will examine all evidence both for and against any given hypothesis and draw conclusions objectively from that. Ultimately, anything asserted absent evidence can be dismissed just as easily.

On a side note, I wonder how open you are to the idea that YOU’RE wrong. I ask this because it seems that believers desire or even expect others to be open to faith-based assertions and beliefs while actively resisting those based on reason, science or fact. Out another way, it seems perfectly reasonable to expect an atheist to allow their children to go to Sunday school, yet how many theists would allow their children to go to a secular/skeptical equivalent?

I understand your desire to share your faith with others. However, when engaging in such discussions you need to try to be as open to their position as you expect them to be to yours.

I am totally open to the claims of Science. The whole history of Science is steeped in the Catholic worldview and the Scientific method owes more to Catholicism than anything else. Faith and Reason are the wings that ascend man to Heaven. For that reason I have no problems with my child embracing science. Do remember however that some scientists have their own anti-supernaturalist presuppositions which colour their perceptions and cloud their thinking. This is why Metaphysics is crucial to the scientific endeavour.

Man will try and run away from God but man can never kill him…religion was supposed to have died out by now and it is stronger than ever…Why? Because Science is pointing the way to God

 

[ProveIt312]

I am totally open to the claims of Science. The whole history of Science is steeped in the Catholic worldview and the Scientific method owes more to Catholicism than anything else. Faith and Reason are the wings that ascend man to Heaven. For that reason I have no problems with my child embracing science. Do remember however that some scientists have their own anti-supernaturalist presuppositions which colour their perceptions and cloud their thinking. This is why Metaphysics is crucial to the scientific endeavour.

Man will try and run away from God but man can never kill him…religion was supposed to have died out by now and it is stronger than ever…Why? Because Science is pointing the way to God

Actually, at the risk of us wandering off-topic, religiosity is actually on the decline. Most western nations have a far higher percentage of atheists/agnostics than here in the States, end even here the percentage of “nones” doubled in a generation.

Also, I would be careful about patting yourself on the back regarding Catholicism and science - the height of the church’s power were called “The Dark Ages” for a reason. From Galileo and burning of witches to modern views of homosexuals, stem cells, contraception, etc, they may not be the worst, but they’re from being a pillar of reason.

Finally, science is drivin by testable, falsifiable and observable phenomena. Should a given hypothesis fail or lack supporting evidence, it’s dismissed as false at least until new evidence is presented. If there IS a god, evidence for his existence would be apparent to everybody - even atheists. Belief in it would require some vague self-assertions and or the mentality of a lemming that’s certain it’s going the right way because the rest of the group is going that way too. Ultimately, truth doesn’t require faith and the requirement for the kind of evidence I mentioned above is the difference between scientific fact and religious “truths” that are asserted absent any.

 

[Tepeyac]

Also, I would be careful about patting yourself on the back regarding Catholicism and science - the height of the church’s power were called “The Dark Ages” for a reason. From Galileo and burning of witches to modern views of homosexuals, stem cells, contraception, etc, they may not be the worst, but they’re from being a pillar of reason.

“The Dark Ages” is really a misleading term. You should look at the following page: Myths About the Middle Ages , and the book God’s Philosophers: How the Medieval World Laid the Foundation for Science . The following article analyzes why science arose in the Christian West and not elsewhere: The Origin of Science.