Evangelization vs Proselytization?

[WD615]

So, Pope Francis gave a sermon on how we should evangelize but shouldn’t proselytize. en.radiovaticana.va/m_articolo.asp?c=690203
I’m not sure what to make of this. Is he saying we should persuade people to accept Catholicism? Surely not. I guess I’m just too much of a stickler for language, but it seems like Pope Francis is confusing the definition of proselytize, which is to recruit people to a new faith and would seem to have the same meaning as evangelization. I’m not sure what he means, but I don’t get its relation to the dictionary definition because that definition says different than what he seems to mean. I don’t want to assign any bad faith to the Holy Father of course because I’m sure he didn’t intend to give off any impression like that but the word choice is a little confusing.

Of course, if I’m missing something and we really aren’t supposed to persuade people to convert (which doesn’t seem entirely right anyhow) then correct me.

Anyhow, I figure it might be like the whole “religion vs relationship” or “I’m not dogmatic” things were the words are used to mean something different than their dictionary entry and are redefined to fit their popular connotations. I guess that’s what Pope Francis is doing here, but it’s still confusing to me. Just wanted to get that off my chest and see what other people thought about it.

 

[Rivii]

Proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another; advocate or promote (a belief or course of action)
Evangelize convert or seek to convert (someone) to Christianity.

I see what you mean about the denotations As to connotations, Pope Francis has been conveying a “set the example” approach to evangelization. In my opinion, he’s communicating that we shouldn’t be so overt about what we believe or be arrogant about our faith; he’s instead advocating that we be exemplars of what we believe

 

[LegoGE1947]

Proselytize convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another; advocate or promote (a belief or course of action)
Evangelize convert or seek to convert (someone) to Christianity.

I see what you mean about the denotations As to connotations, Pope Francis has been conveying a “set the example” approach to evangelization. In my opinion, he’s communicating that we shouldn’t be so overt about what we believe or be arrogant about our faith; he’s instead advocating that we be exemplars of what we believe

It’s like the Pharisees of Jesus’ day Jesus said “You traverse sea and land to make one proselyte, and when that happens, you make him twice the child of Hell as yourselves”(Mt 23:15). This reminds me so much of evangelical Protestantism. Seems so many are not really so much concerned about the person’s soul as they are the bragging rights of getting another notch in their spiritual " gun-belt."

 

[KathleenGee]

There is cause for concern, I think, with this question.

I think what Pope Francis is referring to is that we empty ourselves of Christ to others by living out the Gospel and nurtured by the sacraments, to pick up our cross daily and follow Him.

Being faithful to Christ will certainly affect those around us. Sometimes it is better we not count the cost or be concerned about what others think of us, in regards to whether or not they see Christ in us. People test us and many times, observation and understanding takes some time.

Some times people need to be invited to our parish. And we need parishioners to be sensitive and responsive to inquirers, and fulfill the invitation.

 

[WD615]

It’s like the Pharisees of Jesus’ day Jesus said “You traverse sea and land to make one proselyte, and when that happens, you make him twice the child of Hell as yourselves”(Mt 23:15). This reminds me so much of evangelical Protestantism. Seems so many are not really so much concerned about the person’s soul as they are the bragging rights of getting another notch in their spiritual " gun-belt."

I think Jesus was talking about the hypocrisy and legalism of the Pharisees made new converts worse off after they converted. Still a salient point though. I don’t think he was talking about why we shouldn’t bring in converts. After all, this is the same Jesus that ended that gospel with “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (Matthew 28:19 ESV)”

But I understand what you mean about the whole notch-getting enterprise. People can tell when all they matter to you is as a notch in your spiritual belt. Although, I would say many Protestants are very sincere in sharing their faith. Most that I’ve known try to do it out of that “build a relationship, become a friend, let your life be a witness, etc.” model that Pope Francis seems to advocate. Just not for Catholicism of course

 

[LegoGE1947]

I think Jesus was talking about the hypocrisy and legalism of the Pharisees made new converts worse off after they converted. Still a salient point though. I don’t think he was talking about why we shouldn’t bring in converts. After all, this is the same Jesus that ended that gospel with “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (Matthew 28:19 ESV)”

But I understand what you mean about the whole notch-getting enterprise. People can tell when all they matter to you is as a notch in your spiritual belt. Although, I would say many Protestants are very sincere in sharing their faith. Most that I’ve known try to do it out of that “build a relationship, become a friend, let your life be a witness, etc.” model that Pope Francis seems to advocate. Just not for Catholicism of course

The person responsible for bringing me to become a Protestant (Assemblies of God) Just afterword he disappeared. I asked someone who knew him and they said he had gone back to a life of crime. (He had been put in jail for passing bad checks. While in jail he was approached by a person from the jail ministry of this AG church, made a profession of accepting Jesus as personal savior, was ultimately placed in the jail’s work-release program where he was working for an automobile dealer as a service technician.) I was working part time in the same place. One day he told me about himself and how he has met Jesus and suggested I go to this AG church. I was pressured into responding to the “altar call” that Sunday, went through the process of praying the “Sinner’s Prayer” getting baptized and joing the church all in the space of one week with no teaching at all. no idea what I had done. and as I say a few weeks later the fellow that led me into all this was back to his old lifestyle and I never saw him again. About a year later the senior pastor of that church was killed in an airplane accident and it was like something inside me died as well. for 30 years I was an empty confused shell even though I went from one Protestant assembly to another, getting more and more confused and frustrated. It was in 2001 I became attracted to the catholic Church through EWTN. Even though I’d never been in side a Catholic church building in my life, the first time I set foot inside one I felt “home”

 

[LegoGE1947]

There is cause for concern, I think, with this question.

I think what Pope Francis is referring to is that we empty ourselves of Christ to others by living out the Gospel and nurtured by the sacraments, to pick up our cross daily and follow Him.

Being faithful to Christ will certainly affect those around us. Sometimes it is better we not count the cost or be concerned about what others think of us, in regards to whether or not they see Christ in us. People test us and many times, observation and understanding takes some time.

Some times people need to be invited to our parish. And we need parishioners to be sensitive and responsive to inquirers, and fulfill the invitation.

I’m curious about Protestant assemblies that meet in buildings that don’t even look like a church, have concession stands in the lobby where you can buy your Starbucks, and have theater-style seating and no pews. And have the catch-phrase “A different way to do church”

 

[Oxford_Cleric]

I’m not sure it’s either connotation or denotation, but maybe translation:

Evangelization - “Hey, have you heard? God is at work in this world, saving, blessing, and helping people live to the fullest! He sure did for me! Can I help you?”

Proselytization - “Hello. I belong to an exclusive group; actually, it’s the right group, compared to people like you, and you don’t. Can I prove to you that you’re wrong?”

 

[LegoGE1947]

I’m not sure it’s either connotation or denotation, but maybe translation:

Evangelization - “Hey, have you heard? God is at work in this world, saving, blessing, and helping people live to the fullest! He sure did for me! Can I help you?”

Proselytization - “Hello. I belong to an exclusive group; actually, it’s the right group, compared to people like you, and you don’t. Can I prove to you that you’re wrong?”

How bout “Detonation”?
:takethat:

 

[kkollwitz]

Well said, Oxford. I’m from SC and know just what you mean.

 

[LegoGE1947]

I’m not sure it’s either connotation or denotation, but maybe translation:

Evangelization - “Hey, have you heard? God is at work in this world, saving, blessing, and helping people live to the fullest! He sure did for me! Can I help you?”

Proselytization - “Hello. I belong to an exclusive group; actually, it’s the right group, compared to people like you, and you don’t. Can I prove to you that you’re wrong?”

Actually Catholicism is the “right” group but it’s not exclusive. God wants all men to be part of it because he wants all to live life to the fullest. The Son of God himself started this group so it has to be right. See whatever it is the problem is it is true! Would you call this proselyting or evangelizing?

 

[Oxford_Cleric]

Actually Catholicism is the “right” group but it’s not exclusive. God wants all men to be part of it because he wants all to live life to the fullest. The Son of God himself started this group so it has to be right. See whatever it is the problem is it is true! Would you call this proselyting or evangelizing?

Colossians 4:5-6: “Conduct yourselves wisely toward outsiders, making the most of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer every one” (RSV). Some will need the truth shown to them before they will endure having it preached to them. That is why we must be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves. Soften them up before going in for the kill.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Colossians 4:5-6: “Conduct yourselves wisely toward outsiders, making the most of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer every one” (RSV). Some will need the truth shown to them before they will endure having it preached to them. That is why we must be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves. Soften them up before going in for the kill.

I’m not the kind of person who would walk up to someone, grab them by the lapel and ask them if they’re “saved” I wasn’t that way as a Protestant and I can’t see being that way as a Catholic.

 

[Southy82]

I actually posted this in another thread, but I think it applies here as well.

In the military I think we are not allowed to proselytize, but we are allowed to evangelize.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that evangelizing is simply speaking Gospel. For example, you could speak some Gospel Truth as it bears on your situation at work. Proselytizing on the other hand is more like actively trying to convert someone or recruit someone to your religion.

One thing I try so that I’m not accused of proselytizing is to get other people talking about the Church, Jesus, The Bible, or Catholicism. I might make some comment about how if anyone is looking for me, I will be at the base Chapel during lunch. Or someone will ask if I want to do something that is in someway sinful and I will reply, “Well, I could do that, but then I would have to go to confession.” Many times people will pursue a conversation and at that point you are evangelizing because they are asking you, and you are not proselytizing because again, you are only answering their questions and not trying to get them to do something like converting to Catholicism.

 

[LegoGE1947]

I actually posted this in another thread, but I think it applies here as well.

In the military I think we are not allowed to proselytize, but we are allowed to evangelize.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that evangelizing is simply speaking Gospel. For example, you could speak some Gospel Truth as it bears on your situation at work. Proselytizing on the other hand is more like actively trying to convert someone or recruit someone to your religion.

One thing I try so that I’m not accused of proselytizing is to get other people talking about the Church, Jesus, The Bible, or Catholicism. I might make some comment about how if anyone is looking for me, I will be at the base Chapel during lunch. Or someone will ask if I want to do something that is in someway sinful and I will reply, “Well, I could do that, but then I would have to go to confession.” Many times people will pursue a conversation and at that point you are evangelizing because they are asking you, and you are not proselytizing because again, you are only answering their questions and not trying to get them to do something like converting to Catholicism.

But then there are people who are SO picky ( including the Government) that they seem to have their own definition of what Proselytization or Evangelization are. Could be the government as it is now would say both words are the same thing>