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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Not much praying to the Virgin Mary any more. We had a retired priest substitute for our normal one the last few weeks, and we prayed the Hail Mary with him. I liked it.
Everyone focuses on the Mass! What about about the other changes?
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Mickey_Jackson
Guest
If you read Dignitas Humanae, the Council’s Declaration on Religious Liberty, you’ll see that there’s a difference between the religious liberty condemned by previous Popes and that allowed by the Council. The Church had always condemned (and still does condemn) the notion that man is morally and spiritually free to follow any religion that he chooses. Clearly, this cannot be true if the Catholic Church holds the One True Faith. Vatican II didn’t change this; in fact, DH specifically denies that this teaching has been changed. What the Council was concerned with was the issue of people being coerced into following a particular religion. In the light of the atrocities committed during the Holocaust (still a very recent memory at the time), and of the persecutions of Christians in Communist countries, the Council wished to make it very clear that religious conversion, as necessary as it is, must come from the heart and not because a civil authority makes it a requirement. The Church has always held this viewpoint; for instance, Pope St. Gregory the Great specifically commanded that the Jews of Rome be given freedom to practice their religion, will still encouraging Catholics to work on spreading the Gospel to them. More recently, Pius XII (hardly a Modernist) spoke extensively on this topic; in fact, he is quoted quite liberally in DH.
Hope this helps!
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Mickey_Jackson
Guest
This certainly cannot be blamed on Vatican II, which was the first Council to give the Blessed Virgin the title of “Mother of the Church.” Devotion to Mary was enthusiastically encouraged not only by the Council, but by Popes John XXIII and Paul VI, the Popes of the Council. And furthermore, since the pontificate of John Paul II (“Mary’s Pope”), there has been a resurgence of Marian devotion, at least in more orthodox parishes.
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BennyBoy89
Guest
That would have never have happened before Vatican II!!That proves your Mass was superior to mine. I got a traffic ticket for parking in front of the Church last Sunday.
I don’t remember my getting a parking ticket ever before that.
I’ve heard before that in the old rituals for blessings, that there was greater invocation of the priestly power of the presbyter.
confused: )Sorry, I have no better way to word it…
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ProVobis
Guest
Probably not. We always walked to Church then.That would have never have happened before Vatican II!!
Along with putting our dimes in that big collection plate in back of the Church. Anyone remember those?
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
yep!
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BennyBoy89
Guest
and those secularists went and poisoned the mass with the protestant notion of “passing the plate,” as though the Holy Sacrifice was some sort of meal!
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Mickey_Jackson
Guest
I’m not sure what you mean. I attend the Extraordinary Form occasionally, and they always pass a collection plate. I don’t think that’s anything new.
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ProVobis
Guest
But now they pass it around right after the sermon. Gives the priest some kind of rating before the bishop, I guess. Anyone see the movie “Mass Appeal”?
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AJV
Guest
The collection plate cannot really be exactly attributed to the change in rubrics. Custom before varied and was quite diverse- in some places, as you remember, it was placed in a fixed position,; in others it was passed. The position of the passing also varied- anywhere from during sermons to the Offertory. In the 19th century, there was even legislation in the USA against the practice of the priest leaving the altar to go round with the collection plate.
Silence is actually encouraged by the liturgical books in both the church and adjacent areas like the sacristy.
Silence is actually encouraged by the liturgical books in both the church and adjacent areas like the sacristy.
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BennyBoy89
Guest
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AlexV
Guest
The modern Benedictional is an unmitigated disaster…a talky mess that leaves you wondering where in the prayers the object was actually blessed.
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Claire_from_DE
Guest
Yes, I liked the old days when the people brought in their produce and livestock as an offering. Now those teenagers who have been chewing gum during the first half of the mass can stick it on the end of a finger and when they dip it in the basket as it passes they can get something out of going to church.
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
You have some tough Catholic kids in your area!!
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BennyBoy89
Guest
The Book of Blessings has been brought up a few times on this thread. I went and read some of those articles, and I think they make a good point. Sure, a blessing isn’t magic, but what exactly are we praying for?
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Dempsey1919
Guest
I would also like to know how the Book of Blessings changed. I don’t know anything about either version of this book, but I gather that the changes were quite radical. Perhaps AJV will be able to shed some more light on this?
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Neil_Anthony
Guest
They also changed how churches look… church used to be beautiful stone buildings now they’re… well
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Robster7
Guest
What I learned, and it seems to make sense to me is this. The liturgical calendar had been almost filled with a bunch of Marian and saints feast days. Saints of interest primarily to a local church were put on the universal calendar, and there was a multiplication of Marian feast days under a variety of titles.
Saints whose background information was more than a little uncertain historically were also removed. They were not “de-Sainted”! Their feast was just removed from the calendar.
The belief was this took away from the focus on Christ.
Cleaning up the liturgical calendar had been planned way back around the time of the Council of Trent.
Info from the book, The Liturgical Year: Its History and Its Meaning After the Reform of the Liturgy (Paperback)
by Adolf Adam (Author) “Our human life is closely bound up with its cosmic environment…”
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