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MJE
Guest
There maybe another thread w/ this topic. What makes something “evil” and are there really “evil people” or are there just people who are immersed in evil?
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Teresa9
Guest
Dear friend
Evil is acts against or not in accord with God’s law, humanity, the world, and the church, …evil basically amounts to sin, obviously there are graver sins than others, mortal being the grave and venial being the lesser sin, though still a sin.
No-one is evil in totality. ALL people have good and evil in them and the capacity to do both, the soul chooses which to do. The act IS evil, but the person is not evil. For example…a person is not the one grave/mortal sin they commit, say murder, because they have had the capacity and may well have done many good acts in their life, as all good comes from God, then the person though they have committed an evil , are not intrinsically evil themselves in entirety, the act will always remain as evil but the person themselves are not, furthermore besides their debt to society via the penal system, they may also decide to repent and if they do this and receive absolution, they are absolved of that sin and are no longer bound by it either on earth or in heaven.
Satan is TOTALLY evil, all evil comes from him as God is totally good and all good comes from God.
God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
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JamesS
Guest
I think it should be noted that Christ called his own followers evil in Luke. “You who are evil”. This ties in with original sin and our unredemptive state without Christ.
Of course, Christ was contrasting these mens states with his own divinity. But it should be firmly known that without Christ we are doomed, are *own *righteousness is rags before Christ.
So in answer to your question, yes, man is inherently flawed, sinful, and evil without Christ. We see this on a daily basis.
Look at Christ as our advocate into Heaven. Scripture tell us this.
Cheers
Of course, Christ was contrasting these mens states with his own divinity. But it should be firmly known that without Christ we are doomed, are *own *righteousness is rags before Christ.
So in answer to your question, yes, man is inherently flawed, sinful, and evil without Christ. We see this on a daily basis.
Look at Christ as our advocate into Heaven. Scripture tell us this.
Cheers
T
Teresa9
Guest
Dear friend
Moses wasn’t evil , neither was Soloman, neither was Job, neither was David, neither was Isaiah…etc etc etc all before Christ’s birth, they were flawed and committed sins, (acts of evil) but they were not evil, nor were they all good either, good in them and good acts done, this is God! Also they did not have the benefit of the fullness of Truth that is Christ Jesus, we have the benefit of Christ Jesus and to emulate His life, to become more Christ-like in our very selves to the extent He indwells us in the Eucharist!
To say by it’s very nature humanity is evil, is to say that evil has free reign on mankind, which is not true, because we have free will to resist, just as we have free will to accept God’s law and obey it in submission and obedience. Our nature as humanity is frail and prone to sinfulness, it is the weakness of the human condition.
Our very sustenance is God and through our own sinfulness we would have no hope of eternal life without Christ Jesus, this does not mean that all those who died prior to Jesus’ ressurrection will not taste of eternal life, those who died before who were righteous and just will share in His ressurrection by the mercy of God, Jesus is salvific for all eternity. To be rightoeus without faith is fruitless just as to have faith and no righteousness is, good works cannot be seperated from faith as the other demands the other and both are inseperable, neither faith alone suffices, nor does good works without faith suffice either, though a person cannot buy their salvation by doing good acts alone, it requires faith and also a pious life striving for holiness in the very footsteps of Christ Himself.
In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus refers to those who will follow Him as the ‘light of the world’ and the ‘salt of the earth’ no-one can do this who is evil. When Jesus is speaking of those who are evil giving good things to their children, He is talking to a fallen race of God’s people, who have the law and have perverted the law, some so much so just for their own prestige, as in the Pharisees, still though they have perverted the law, they still know how to give good things, so then He says what more will your Father in Heaven give you?..So though they had become corrupt, they still knew how to do good acts. No-one is all evil, no-one is all good…
God Bless you and much ove and peace to you
Teresa
Moses wasn’t evil , neither was Soloman, neither was Job, neither was David, neither was Isaiah…etc etc etc all before Christ’s birth, they were flawed and committed sins, (acts of evil) but they were not evil, nor were they all good either, good in them and good acts done, this is God! Also they did not have the benefit of the fullness of Truth that is Christ Jesus, we have the benefit of Christ Jesus and to emulate His life, to become more Christ-like in our very selves to the extent He indwells us in the Eucharist!
To say by it’s very nature humanity is evil, is to say that evil has free reign on mankind, which is not true, because we have free will to resist, just as we have free will to accept God’s law and obey it in submission and obedience. Our nature as humanity is frail and prone to sinfulness, it is the weakness of the human condition.
Our very sustenance is God and through our own sinfulness we would have no hope of eternal life without Christ Jesus, this does not mean that all those who died prior to Jesus’ ressurrection will not taste of eternal life, those who died before who were righteous and just will share in His ressurrection by the mercy of God, Jesus is salvific for all eternity. To be rightoeus without faith is fruitless just as to have faith and no righteousness is, good works cannot be seperated from faith as the other demands the other and both are inseperable, neither faith alone suffices, nor does good works without faith suffice either, though a person cannot buy their salvation by doing good acts alone, it requires faith and also a pious life striving for holiness in the very footsteps of Christ Himself.
In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus refers to those who will follow Him as the ‘light of the world’ and the ‘salt of the earth’ no-one can do this who is evil. When Jesus is speaking of those who are evil giving good things to their children, He is talking to a fallen race of God’s people, who have the law and have perverted the law, some so much so just for their own prestige, as in the Pharisees, still though they have perverted the law, they still know how to give good things, so then He says what more will your Father in Heaven give you?..So though they had become corrupt, they still knew how to do good acts. No-one is all evil, no-one is all good…
God Bless you and much ove and peace to you
Teresa
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JamesS
Guest
Hi Theresa,
What i was getting at is mans natural state. Without Christ as our advocate, we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I can find no scripture to support otherwise. If we were *inherently *good creatures and at one with God, Christ would not of needed to come.
Yes, they’re were good servants of God before Christs coming. But he also went to preach to those who did not know him in Hades.
This all ties into the concept of original sin. We are born with an inherent flaw to God’s ultimate design, thus the purpose of Christ.
Perhaps we are crossing paths here on the definition of someone who is *evil *as it were? I agree with you that man has both evil and good in his soul, and it is up to him which he shall succumb to.
But I should stress that *we *as in ourselves have **no **inherent goodness or righteousness worthy of entering the Kingdom of Heaven.
If a man were to reject Christ, but claim to be good (as in Pilgrims Progess), what is the source of his goodness or righteousness? Light and truth can only come from **one **source, Jesus Christ.
Cheers
What i was getting at is mans natural state. Without Christ as our advocate, we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I can find no scripture to support otherwise. If we were *inherently *good creatures and at one with God, Christ would not of needed to come.
Yes, they’re were good servants of God before Christs coming. But he also went to preach to those who did not know him in Hades.
This all ties into the concept of original sin. We are born with an inherent flaw to God’s ultimate design, thus the purpose of Christ.
Perhaps we are crossing paths here on the definition of someone who is *evil *as it were? I agree with you that man has both evil and good in his soul, and it is up to him which he shall succumb to.
But I should stress that *we *as in ourselves have **no **inherent goodness or righteousness worthy of entering the Kingdom of Heaven.
If a man were to reject Christ, but claim to be good (as in Pilgrims Progess), what is the source of his goodness or righteousness? Light and truth can only come from **one **source, Jesus Christ.
Cheers
T
Teresa9
Guest
Dear James
If a person in the fullness of knowledge of Christ rejects Him, that is a different matter. However mostly the fact remains, that not all people have the fullness of knowledge of Christ, they have never even heard of Jesus or the Gospel or they have heard but don’t KNOW Jesus in the fullness of knowledge, to be held accountable then to the fullness of knowledge is not possible. The person just has to live to the best they can within the premises of their faith/ no faith, that they have, as no-one can sin unless they KNOW it is a sin. Within what they know, therefore a person may be righteous within these perameters. (This is why Catholics must effectively evangelise the world)
Christ came because God knows we are good, we are His creation ‘and God said, it is good’ and He knows that despite our sins we are capable of great love and great faith. This is why our Father in Heaven is merciful toward us, forgiveful of our stumblings and patient and slow to anger at our stupidity and errors. We sin, the original sin of our first parents is the sin that we are all capable of as humans, we are capable and do seperate ourselves from God by sin, Jesus came for the reparation of sin, though that we may sin, in His blood we are washed clean and by His death and ressurrection we have remit to our Father in Heaven for forgiveness, with true repentance on our part here and a clear intention not to sin again by His grace, on earth and in heaven for all eternity. We simply allowed ourslves to be led into and corrupted by evil , so that our humanity became a broken humanity, vunerable to sin and the more we sin the eaier it is to sin, it is a vicous circle, this vicious circle was broken by the Messiah, whose very birth brought the reign of the end times and man’s possible unity with God, if man so desires. God made mankind to live in accord with Him, not to be seperate.
Everything is gift, life itself is gift, therefore all that is good is gift and all that is good proceeds from the Father, God looked upon His creation and said , it is good, not it is good now but will be ‘evil’, He knows we are good and by the help of His graces which is in essence goodness, we become as His beloved Son, Christ-like, so that we are worthy then of the promises of Christ and can share eternity in the company of The Truine God and all His heavenly court.
Christ Jesus is the door , the light and the way and no-one can come to God but by Him, now this being the case, those who are ignorant of Christ will not be held by this premise, though Christ will be their judge. Just because they do not know of Christ doesn’t make the evil, on the contrary, it only makes them lacking in knowledge, it is no reflection of their spiritual wealth or the morality of their life, nor of their belief in God. Where does this goodness come from that would possibly lead a soul to heaven who has never heard of Jesus? It comes from God, as all goodness comes from God, where does all evil come from? it comes from satan, therefore man is neither inherently good or inherently evil, we choose evil or good, we become evil or good, it is the matter of free will.
If a person in the fullness of knowledge of Christ rejects Him, that is a different matter. However mostly the fact remains, that not all people have the fullness of knowledge of Christ, they have never even heard of Jesus or the Gospel or they have heard but don’t KNOW Jesus in the fullness of knowledge, to be held accountable then to the fullness of knowledge is not possible. The person just has to live to the best they can within the premises of their faith/ no faith, that they have, as no-one can sin unless they KNOW it is a sin. Within what they know, therefore a person may be righteous within these perameters. (This is why Catholics must effectively evangelise the world)
Christ came because God knows we are good, we are His creation ‘and God said, it is good’ and He knows that despite our sins we are capable of great love and great faith. This is why our Father in Heaven is merciful toward us, forgiveful of our stumblings and patient and slow to anger at our stupidity and errors. We sin, the original sin of our first parents is the sin that we are all capable of as humans, we are capable and do seperate ourselves from God by sin, Jesus came for the reparation of sin, though that we may sin, in His blood we are washed clean and by His death and ressurrection we have remit to our Father in Heaven for forgiveness, with true repentance on our part here and a clear intention not to sin again by His grace, on earth and in heaven for all eternity. We simply allowed ourslves to be led into and corrupted by evil , so that our humanity became a broken humanity, vunerable to sin and the more we sin the eaier it is to sin, it is a vicous circle, this vicious circle was broken by the Messiah, whose very birth brought the reign of the end times and man’s possible unity with God, if man so desires. God made mankind to live in accord with Him, not to be seperate.
Everything is gift, life itself is gift, therefore all that is good is gift and all that is good proceeds from the Father, God looked upon His creation and said , it is good, not it is good now but will be ‘evil’, He knows we are good and by the help of His graces which is in essence goodness, we become as His beloved Son, Christ-like, so that we are worthy then of the promises of Christ and can share eternity in the company of The Truine God and all His heavenly court.
Christ Jesus is the door , the light and the way and no-one can come to God but by Him, now this being the case, those who are ignorant of Christ will not be held by this premise, though Christ will be their judge. Just because they do not know of Christ doesn’t make the evil, on the contrary, it only makes them lacking in knowledge, it is no reflection of their spiritual wealth or the morality of their life, nor of their belief in God. Where does this goodness come from that would possibly lead a soul to heaven who has never heard of Jesus? It comes from God, as all goodness comes from God, where does all evil come from? it comes from satan, therefore man is neither inherently good or inherently evil, we choose evil or good, we become evil or good, it is the matter of free will.
T
Teresa9
Guest
Continued
The truth is that God love us (so much so His only Son died for the wieght of our sins and for our redemption) and the human capacity to love sometimes astounds me , such love is and can be shown by people. We are not created creatures that are inherently evil, we are created out of love and have allowed evil to corrupt us. To whom much is given much is required, this sentence of Christ jesus carries so much weight in many ways, but my use of it in this context pertians to the soul who has the fullness of knowledge of Christ Jesus, this soul has much expected of it , rather than the soul that does not have full knowledge.
This has gone along way off topic, these are my thoughts on this. Humanity is not evil, Christ raised the righteous back to heaven that was lost through original sin and taught us all how to be righteous, the law of the old prophets brought to fruition to bring humanity to the fullness of Truth and the fullness of faith.
God Bless you and much love and peace to you Teresa
The truth is that God love us (so much so His only Son died for the wieght of our sins and for our redemption) and the human capacity to love sometimes astounds me , such love is and can be shown by people. We are not created creatures that are inherently evil, we are created out of love and have allowed evil to corrupt us. To whom much is given much is required, this sentence of Christ jesus carries so much weight in many ways, but my use of it in this context pertians to the soul who has the fullness of knowledge of Christ Jesus, this soul has much expected of it , rather than the soul that does not have full knowledge.
This has gone along way off topic, these are my thoughts on this. Humanity is not evil, Christ raised the righteous back to heaven that was lost through original sin and taught us all how to be righteous, the law of the old prophets brought to fruition to bring humanity to the fullness of Truth and the fullness of faith.
God Bless you and much love and peace to you Teresa
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