Evolutional Theory Can lead to great Evil

[TruthisBeauty7]

I liked to make a few points on this thread.

First off the reason why Im talking about evolution because I think the church needs to do a complete 180 on this . There is many scientists who claim there’s little evidence for evolution and these aren’t creationists. I can provide you with a list of qoutes if need be.

Also to me you can’t seperate the scientific theory of evolution from its moral consquences.How can you ? If you say its a absolute fact that we were formed through the principles of evolution , then you must adapt a natural selection ethic, otherwise your not congruent in my understanding. How can you say that mankind came about such a way, according to such evolutionary laws, and yet adapt a christian morality , they are opposed to each other and it would make no sense for you to do so.

And if evolution was true in the past its true for today and were still evolving . You must then admit that those who are stronger, faster, smarter, have more value then someone with lesser talents. Also your view of mankind must take on a evolutionary mindframe, were you judge everyone based on a evolutionary pyramid. Not only this but could you really be blamed to have lust, gluttony , since these are a result of evoltionary design for are own Survival. Marriage doesnt make sense, Celibacy doesnt make sense for the sake of God.

To me , this theory is being proposed by the world elite for the future formation of there eugentics program.

I want to hear from a catholic a response to these statements. A well thought out patient response . You can agree or disagree.

Also I want to say by accepting the evolutionary theory as the basis of man’s creation your moving one more step closer to deism, which is closer to atheism. It seems to me a weaking of mans faith.

 

[Benadam]

The success or failure of a theory to scientist is it’s ability to predict the world around us. Evolution theory has provided science with a model that has lead them to countless discoveries and humanity is benefitting in ways most of us are unaware of.

Because there is no better model of how living matter is operating, a model authenticated by predicting what is eventually found, for many years now, I find it a disservice to truth to say it is impossible.

 

[Benadam]

And if evolution was true in the past its true for today and were still evolving .

The theory may explain a means to an end fulfilled in God. This is a possibility. If denied, then that exposes a faith closed, that does not accept that all things are possible with God. Like an old wine skin that cannot accept new wine.

 

[pipper]

I liked to make a few points on this thread.

First off the reason why Im talking about evolution because I think the church needs to do a complete 180 on this . There is many scientists who claim there’s little evidence for evolution and these aren’t creationists. I can provide you with a list of qoutes if need be.

Also to me you can’t seperate the scientific theory of evolution from its moral consquences.How can you ? If you say its a absolute fact that we were formed through the principles of evolution , then you must adapt a natural selection ethic, otherwise your not congruent in my understanding. How can you say that mankind came about such a way, according to such evolutionary laws, and yet adapt a christian morality , they are opposed to each other and it would make no sense for you to do so.

And if evolution was true in the past its true for today and were still evolving . You must then admit that those who are stronger, faster, smarter, have more value then someone with lesser talents. Also your view of mankind must take on a evolutionary mindframe, were you judge everyone based on a evolutionary pyramid. Not only this but could you really be blamed to have lust, gluttony , since these are a result of evoltionary design for are own Survival. Marriage doesnt make sense, Celibacy doesnt make sense for the sake of God.

To me , this theory is being proposed by the world elite for the future formation of there eugentics program.

I want to hear from a catholic a response to these statements. A well thought out patient response . You can agree or disagree.

Also I want to say by accepting the evolutionary theory as the basis of man’s creation your moving one more step closer to deism, which is closer to atheism. It seems to me a weaking of mans faith.

Truth is, I think perhaps it is you who needs to make that 180 degree turn.
I am getting on in years, but I still remember my old St Anthony’s catchism saying, science and religion cannot dissagree. can not.

Who are you to dissagree with the Holy Fathers, and the church?

Nothing personal but I think I will go with the church and not you.

 

[abucs]

I think we do have to divide evolutionary theory onto different parts.

There is the scientific theory to explain life forms (which i accept) and there is the philosophical assumption that this is all there is.

In addition to this there is the history of where that philosophy has taken us - eugenics, and the final solution of the nazis.

Certainly the outcomes of that history are abhorred by all. For the moment anyway.

The danger is that with enough time passing, whether or not someone else with this philosophy will try again with their own version of gene utopia, for the universal greatest good.

Darwin did predict that the black man would soon vanish due to his inability to compete with the white man, and that with his disappearance the rest of human kind (the better genes) would be stronger and better for it (Descent of Man).

Scary stuff. I’m sure Hitler is not the only one who was convinced of that philosophical rubbish.

The problem with people who have accepted the philosophy is, what else is there but genes and environment ? Is there anything that trumps this, if so what ?

If there is nothing else, then what do you say to the next Hitler who wants your genes removed from the planet - for his idea of the greater good ?

 

[TruthisBeauty7]

This is my point exactly.

I should be more clear but when I speak about evolution im talking about Macro Evolution not micro.

I accept micro evolution but not Macro.

 

[Benadam]

I don’t see the theory as a cause for the shift in morals. There are more powerfull factors involved that alter perception and slowly reorder societies morals. a change in the meaning men give women and visa versa alter the environment that forms a child’s perception and morals. Shifts of our meaning as revealed by the opposite gender alter perception at a level that echoes into the maternal environment that forms our meaning and it’s relation to other. These factors fundamentally structure our morality.

 

[Gamera]

Re: Evolutional Theory Can lead to great Evil

Sure. Of course, economic theory can lead to great evil, too. That doesn’t mean economics is false.

 

[kalt]

Who is forcing you to believe such a thing? There is no other area of science that depends on blind faith like this occult theory. Wait until there is an observed evolutionary event.

I really don’t understand anyone who would make evolution a part of religion.

I’ve seen this false argument oodles of times, and I’m still shocked when I do.

If you’ve followed the story of the swine flu, you’ve read about a very recent evolutionary event.

 

[kalt]

I reject Darwinian philosophy on morality, but I do accept the science that things evovle. Micro evolution is a proven fact, and the ammount of evidence for macro evolution is quite overwhelming. However, I see God actively acting in the process of evolution, at some point giving early humans, two of them who we know as Adam and Eve, a soul and morality. The fall of man literally did occur, though I daresay I have some doubts as to whether it invovled forbidden fruit. I think this is far more likely to be simply an allegory for sin itself. Another interesting idea I’ve heard is that the leaving of the Garden of Eden represents the transistion from hunter gatherer society to agriculture.
In 1996 His Holiness John Paul II declared: “…new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis.”
Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) stated: “We cannot say: creation or evolution, inasmuch as these two things respond to two different realities. The story of the dust of the earth and the breath of God, which we just heard, does not in fact explain how human persons come to be but rather what they are. It explains their inmost origin and casts light on the project that they are. And, vice versa, the theory of evolution seeks to understand and describe biological developments. But in so doing it cannot explain where the ‘project’ of human persons comes from, nor their inner origin, nor their particular nature. To that extent we are faced here with two complementary – rather than mutually exclusive – realities.”

That’s food for though. :twocents:

Just so we’re all on the same page, we all know that social Darwinism is a misunderstanding of Darwin’s theory–I hope.

Unfortunately, many Americans bought into social darwinism, and the abuses against innocent Americans are evidence of the complete lack of understanding on the part of its practitioners.

Wasn’t abortion for black women (to eliminate the undesireable black babies of poor, single black women, I think) one of products of the social Darwinism/eugenics thinking?

 

[kalt]

I liked to make a few points on this thread.

First off the reason why Im talking about evolution because I think the church needs to do a complete 180 on this . There is many scientists who claim there’s little evidence for evolution and these aren’t creationists. I can provide you with a list of qoutes if need be.

Also to me you can’t seperate the scientific theory of evolution from its moral consquences.How can you ? If you say its a absolute fact that we were formed through the principles of evolution , then you must adapt a natural selection ethic, otherwise your not congruent in my understanding. How can you say that mankind came about such a way, according to such evolutionary laws, and yet adapt a christian morality , they are opposed to each other and it would make no sense for you to do so.

And if evolution was true in the past its true for today and were still evolving . You must then admit that those who are stronger, faster, smarter, have more value then someone with lesser talents. Also your view of mankind must take on a evolutionary mindframe, were you judge everyone based on a evolutionary pyramid. Not only this but could you really be blamed to have lust, gluttony , since these are a result of evoltionary design for are own Survival. Marriage doesnt make sense, Celibacy doesnt make sense for the sake of God.

To me , this theory is being proposed by the world elite for the future formation of there eugentics program.

I want to hear from a catholic a response to these statements. A well thought out patient response . You can agree or disagree.

Also I want to say by accepting the evolutionary theory as the basis of man’s creation your moving one more step closer to deism, which is closer to atheism. It seems to me a weaking of mans faith.

Just a quick lesson. There are sources in the library or on the Net that you can read if you want more specific info.

Survival of the fittest. Well, this really doesn’t mean that only the biggest, fastest, most beautiful, healthiest survive.

Survival of the fittest only means that those who manage to live long enough to reproduce are the “fittest”. This would include the biggest and fastest, and the rest who aren’t so big or fast but still manage to survive long enough to reproduce.

Over time, traits in the population that often result in death before reproducing will be selected against. A higher percentage of those with that trait won’t reproduce. A higher percentage of those without that trail will live long enough to reproduce.

Natural selection has nothing to do with value.

“More Valuable” is an attribute that you are assigning to the fastest and biggest. This is, I think, how so many people fell into the social Darwinism/eugenics trap. They thought they saw scientific justification for the “more valuable” they had already placed on the biggest, fastest, most beautiful, “Arian”, etc. I’m sure that “more valuable” wasn’t a universal idea. Each group, maybe each individual, had its own idea of what “more valuable” meant.

At any rate, scientists don’t look at evolution as a string of the fittest (“more valuable”) members of species extinguishing the weaker (less valuable) members.

It’s funny that so many non-scientists hold this view, which is not at all part of how scientists understand evolution, and then accuse scientists of promoting this view.

I think that too many people are getting their information on evolution from some very biased (most likely religious, tending toward fundamentalist) sources.

Scientists use evolutionary theory every day. I mentioned the swine flu in another post. Read a scientific explanation on how flu vaccines or antibiotics are reasearched and made.

 

[matahari]

It is getting risky to admit to being a Bible believer. You might be accused of being [shock Horror ] a fundamentalist ! If the word fundamental means basic then what is wrong with being a fundamentalist? Does it not just mean you have a basic belief in the truth of the Word of God? ?

Do we interpret the Bible with a mind that has been formed and informed by the secular world ?

                                            OR

Do we interpret the secular world with a mind which has been formed by the

Word of God and the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

“Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.”

 

[TruthisBeauty7]

“More Valuable” is an attribute that you are assigning to the fastest and biggest. This is, I think, how so many people fell into the social Darwinism/eugenics trap. They thought they saw scientific justification for the “more valuable” they had already placed on the biggest, fastest, most beautiful, “Arian”, etc. I’m sure that “more valuable” wasn’t a universal idea. Each group, maybe each individual, had its own idea of what “more valuable” meant.

The world elite hold to these thoughts though , thats the problem im stating.To them its a universal Idea, like it was for hitler.

 

[Holly3278]

Just because evolutionary theory can lead to great evil does not mean that the theory itself is evil. If the theory itself were evil, the Catholic Church would have condemned it.

 

[Silvereel]

It is getting risky to admit to being a Bible believer. You might be accused of being [shock Horror ] a fundamentalist ! If the word fundamental means basic then what is wrong with being a fundamentalist? Does it not just mean you have a basic belief in the truth of the Word of God? ?

Do we interpret the Bible with a mind that has been formed and informed by the secular world ?

                                            OR

Do we interpret the secular world with a mind which has been formed by the

Word of God and the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

“Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.”

As I have stated many times I shall state again. The Bible is NOT a book of science or history, but a book of faith. It is a perfect source for learning about God and our faith, but it is up to us to learn about the inner workings of this world.

 

[Silvereel]

This is my point exactly.

I should be more clear but when I speak about evolution im talking about Macro Evolution not micro.

I accept micro evolution but not Macro.

The person above you was talking about the philosophy and science. Are you saying that macroevolution is philosophy? It is not. It is the theory that things change in big ways.

 

[kalt]

“More Valuable” is an attribute that you are assigning to the fastest and biggest. This is, I think, how so many people fell into the social Darwinism/eugenics trap. They thought they saw scientific justification for the “more valuable” they had already placed on the biggest, fastest, most beautiful, “Arian”, etc. I’m sure that “more valuable” wasn’t a universal idea. Each group, maybe each individual, had its own idea of what “more valuable” meant.

The world elite hold to these thoughts though , thats the problem im stating.To them its a universal Idea, like it was for hitler.

Who are the world elite? And what does it have to do with evolution as understood by scientists and those who know that evolution doesn’t equal Social Darwinism and eugenics.

People already thought that the biggest and best were more valueable. They merely latched onto and misused evolution theory to justify what they already believed, to put quasi -scientifc polish on their “theory” that has nothing to do with evolution.