EWTN is setting-up studio at Christ Cathedral in Orange County

[Wassermann]

After checking out the parish website, that will be left to be seen. To become a minor Basilica, the parish itself must display orthodoxy. Besides, St. Patrick’s in New York isn’t a Basilica.

According to line 14 of adoremus.org/DomusEcclesiae.html, the Faithful must be able to chant in Latin together

The parish will also need to have Adoration more than once a month.

Absolutely not. A church or cathedral gains the title of minor basilica for what it is and not what people do. It could be an extremely historic structure. It might be one of great pilgrimage, a Catholic “hub” if you will or it might just be about who you know.

There is a minor basilica near Christ Cathedral in San Juan Capistrano built upon the land of the largely ruined Mission San Juan Capistrano. Some California Missions are Minor Basilicas. San Jose’s Saint Joseph Cathedral is a minor basilica. In the case of Saint Joseph’s Basilica in Alameda, CA (just up the road from San Jose) its biggest distinction is that its former pastor Monsignor Alvin P. Wagner was a close personal friend of Pope Paul VI.

 

[Wassermann]

Yes, ETWN is taking advantage of the TV stuff that was there. I beleive they actually had a TV studio on campus.

Christ Cathedral has a giant basement. That is where a lot of their production took place. EWTN’s offices/studio will be in the Tower of Hope.

 

[Wassermann]

I admit I was judging based on the current trend of Spanish-speaking people attendance at Mass, at least in the Midwest. I know the Schuller ministry served them as well. I apologize if this offended you.

That said, do we know what the final layout of the interior will be? How will this affect the acoustics fit to serve the sounds of the towering organ there? Very small things like carpeting can vastly change the reverberation, etc. Vatican II made the pipe organ an issue so I don’t think these concerns are unreasonable.

The final layout has not been released. I rather doubt it’s completely known yet. I am sure a professional sound engineer is part of the redesign team. It’s interesting to realize that the Hazel Wright Pipe Organ will be the second largest pipe organ in the Catholic Church anywhere in the world.

 

[Wassermann]

Yea, I know, I think all the statues are from the Schuller ministry. That’s why I was surprised a Protestant church actually built so many statues. But they are good, the statues are all from Bible stories. They make the campus more Catholic. I am sure once the renovation is done, it will have more Catholic atmosphere. I am looking forward to next time travelling to Southern California to see the finished campus. No matter how the campus looks like, it is great as long as the Real Presence of our Lord Jesus is there.

Robert Schuller was never anti-Catholic. He greatly admired his friend, Pope John Paul II. Before Christal Cathedral was built, he took a model of it to the Vatican to show Pope JPII and the Pope blessed it.

When Pope JPII visited California, Schuller had giant TV screens set up inside of the Crystal Cathedral so people in Orange County could watch the events going on up in Los Angeles in pre-Internet times.

 

[InLight247]

Robert Schuller was never anti-Catholic. He greatly admired his friend, Pope John Paul II. Before Christal Cathedral was built, he took a model of it to the Vatican to show Pope JPII and the Pope blessed it.

When Pope JPII visited California, Schuller had giant TV screens set up inside of the Crystal Cathedral so people in Orange County could watch the events going on up in Los Angeles in pre-Internet times.

That is interesting to know. Saint JPII blessed the Cathedral model in the beginning, and now the Catholic Church owns the Cathedral! All is in God’s plan.

 

[phil19034]

Absolutely not. A church or cathedral gains the title of minor basilica for what it is and not what people do. It could be an extremely historic structure. It might be one of great pilgrimage, a Catholic “hub” if you will or it might just be about who you know.

There is a minor basilica near Christ Cathedral in San Juan Capistrano built upon the land of the largely ruined Mission San Juan Capistrano. Some California Missions are Minor Basilicas. San Jose’s Saint Joseph Cathedral is a minor basilica. In the case of Saint Joseph’s Basilica in Alameda, CA (just up the road from San Jose) its biggest distinction is that its former pastor Monsignor Alvin P. Wagner was a close personal friend of Pope Paul VI.

It’s actually both the physical properties and history of the Church and the orthodoxy of the clergy and faithful. The requirements were changed in the 1980s because too many church buildings were becoming Biscillias. By placing a requirement for orthodoxy, it limits which Churches the local Bishop can recommend. Afterall, a Biscilica is a Catholic pilgram site.

usccb.org/about/divine-worship/policies/minor-basilica.cfm

Please read the very first condition

1. A church for which the title of basilica is proposed must have been dedicated to God by a liturgical rite and must stand out as a center of active and pastoral liturgy, especially through celebrations of the Most Holy Eucharist, of penance, and of the other sacraments,** which celebrations set an example for others on account of their preparation and realization according to liturgical norms** and with the active participation of the people of God.

condition 1 states that the chuch and her Faithful must set an example for other parishes/Churches. So the Liturgy must be the best expression of the Catholic Faith.

1. So that, as the liturgical year progresses, the celebrations of the various seasons may be carried out in a praiseworthy manner, a fitting number of priests is necessary; they are to be assigned to the liturgical and pastoral care of the church, especially for the celebration of the Eucharist and penance (there should also be an appropriate number of confessors who at stated hours are available to the faithful).

In addition, a sufficient number of ministers is required as well as an adequate schola cantorum, which is to encourage the participation of the faithful with sacred music and singing.

A Biscillica typically has access to either it’s own Georgorian Chant choir or an diocean one.

Under Section III, part I

1. In a minor basilica the **liturgical instruction of the faithful is to be promoted by establishing groups concerned with liturgical activity, by special courses of instruction **given in a series of conferences, and by other programs of this kind.

A Basilica requires liturgical instruction given to the ministries and hence the Faithful.

Section III, part 3 says the following regarding song:

1. Since the celebration of the liturgy takes on a more noble form when it is carried out in song, care must be taken that gatherings of the Christian faithful be associated with the singing of the various parts of the Mass, especially those found in the Ordinary (cf. Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 54; Sacred Congregation for Rites, Instruction Musicam Sacram, March 5, 1967).

**In a basilica where the faithful from different nations or languages frequently come together, it is useful that they should know how to sing together in Latin **the profession of faith and the Lord’s Prayer, using more simple melodies like those composed in Gregorian chant which is “proper to the Roman Liturgy” (cf. Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 116; General Instruction of the Roman Missal, no. 41).

In the Basilica Cathedral I sometimes attend, at they often (every other week) do Mass with many of the parts of the OF Mass in Latin and Greek: The Kyrie (Lord have Mercy) is done in the Greek while the Gloria, the Anthem during the Preparation of the Gifts, Sanctus (Holy Holy), Agnus Dei (Lamb of God), the Communion Antiphon and Communion Anthems are all in Latin.

Also, in the Basilica Cathedral, you will rarely see anyone lifting their hands or holding hands during the Our Father, which is the Priestly gesture.

Anyway… I’m not saying that the new Cathedral can’t one day become a Basilica, but if it does, the Parish will need to be mostly orthodox.

God Bless

 

[ProVobis]

It’s actually both the physical properties and history of the Church and the orthodoxy of the clergy and faithful. The requirements were changed in the 1980s because too many church buildings were becoming Biscillias. By placing a requirement for orthodoxy, it limits which Churches the local Bishop can recommend. Afterall, a Biscilica is a Catholic pilgram site.

usccb.org/about/divine-worship/policies/minor-basilica.cfm

Please read the very first condition

condition 1 states that the chuch and her Faithful must set an example for other parishes/Churches. So the Liturgy must be the best expression of the Catholic Faith.

A Biscillica typically has access to either it’s own Georgorian Chant choir or an diocean one.

Under Section III, part I

A Basilica requires liturgical instruction given to the ministries and hence the Faithful.

Section III, part 3 says the following regarding song:

In the Basilica Cathedral I sometimes attend, at they often (every other week) do Mass with many of the parts of the OF Mass in Latin and Greek: The Kyrie (Lord have Mercy) is done in the Greek while the Gloria, the Anthem during the Preparation of the Gifts, Sanctus (Holy Holy), Agnus Dei (Lamb of God), the Communion Antiphon and Communion Anthems are all in Latin.

Also, in the Basilica Cathedral, you will rarely see anyone lifting their hands or holding hands during the Our Father, which is the Priestly gesture.

Anyway… I’m not saying that the new Cathedral can’t one day become a Basilica, but if it does, the Parish will need to be mostly orthodox.

God Bless

Good information. Thanks for this.

 

[andrewstx]

I admit I was judging based on the current trend of Spanish-speaking people attendance at Mass, at least in the Midwest. I know the Schuller ministry served them as well. I apologize if this offended you.

That said, do we know what the final layout of the interior will be? How will this affect the acoustics fit to serve the sounds of the towering organ there? Very small things like carpeting can vastly change the reverberation, etc. Vatican II made the pipe organ an issue so I don’t think these concerns are unreasonable.

Actually the glass and steel architechture of Christ Cathedral makes organ music very very difficult there.

I listened to a radio program where Frederick Swann played the organ. In the commentary he said that it is impossible to play the unenclosed and enclosed (swell) divisions of the instrument together. It had to be one division or the other.

Perhaps the diocese can install stained glass and air conditioning to solve that problem.

The Program is “Pipe Dreams” and it is on American Public Radio.

 

[Wassermann]

Actually the glass and steel architechture of Christ Cathedral makes organ music very very difficult there.

I listened to a radio program where Frederick Swann played the organ. In the commentary he said that it is impossible to play the unenclosed and enclosed (swell) divisions of the instrument together. It had to be one division or the other.

Perhaps the diocese can install stained glass and air conditioning to solve that problem.

The Program is “Pipe Dreams” and it is on American Public Radio.

Neither stained glass nor air conditioning would fix the “problem.” Stained glass would look hideously out of place. Christ Cathedral is cooled by very effective natural convection. If it wasn’t and it it needed to be air conditioned to be comfortable, it would not have met energy building codes, even back in 1979 when planning began.

Audio engineering for structures is a lot more advanced than in 1979. I suspect there will be changes made to polish Christ Cathedral’s acoustics. Perhaps the same sound consultant who designed Our Lady of the Angel Cathedral’s acoustics which are excellent will take part in the process.

 

[Wassermann]

That is interesting to know. Saint JPII blessed the Cathedral model in the beginning, and now the Catholic Church owns the Cathedral! All is in God’s plan.

It sure seems that way. The Diocese of Orange has always been short of pew space and has never had a proper cathedral. This had impacted the diocese more and more over the past two decades.

Its effort to build a cathedral were agonizingly slow and would have cost far more than Christ Cathedral. I truly see the Holy Spirit at work.

 

[ProVobis]

Actually the glass and steel architechture of Christ Cathedral makes organ music very very difficult there.

I listened to a radio program where Frederick Swann played the organ. In the commentary he said that it is impossible to play the unenclosed and enclosed (swell) divisions of the instrument together. It had to be one division or the other.

Perhaps the diocese can install stained glass and air conditioning to solve that problem.

The Program is “Pipe Dreams” and it is on American Public Radio.

Frederick Swann was the best. (He retired in 1998.) I attended one of his recitals here in the Midwest (Christ Church of Oakbrook), performing on an Austin which he admitted he was playing for the first time, he was talking acoustics and how different the reverberation when there is a scant presence of people as opposed to a full house.

Some other considerations.

acousticsfirst.com/article-acoustics-a-first-analysis.htm

 

[Wassermann]

Frederick Swann was the best. (He retired in 1998.) I attended one of his recitals here in the Midwest (Christ Church of Oakbrook), performing on an Austin which he admitted he was playing for the first time, he was talking acoustics and how different the reverberation when there is a scant presence of people as opposed to a full house.

Some other considerations.

acousticsfirst.com/article-acoustics-a-first-analysis.htm

Many would say Swann’s predecessor at the Crystal Cathedral, Virgil Fox was even better. No matter what, Christ Cathedral is sure to have an awesome organist.

 

[ProVobis]

Virgil Fox was even better.

He was good too and I have some of his CDs. He gave a lot of outdoor concerts though, even encouraging participation, and wasn’t that much a tickler for proper acoustics. Crystal Cathedral has had some other talented organists as well. Youtube contains some videos of them. I taped a lot of the great music that was played/sung there back in the 80’s.

 

[janeway529]

Neither stained glass nor air conditioning would fix the “problem.” Stained glass would look hideously out of place. Christ Cathedral is cooled by very effective natural convection. If it wasn’t and it it needed to be air conditioned to be comfortable, it would not have met energy building codes, even back in 1979 when planning began.

Audio engineering for structures is a lot more advanced than in 1979. I suspect there will be changes made to polish Christ Cathedral’s acoustics. Perhaps the same sound consultant who designed Our Lady of the Angel Cathedral’s acoustics which are excellent will take part in the process.

I know Bishop Vann has been consulting with other bishops. The pews in the LA Cathedral were from a company that manufactures in Tijuana. Last I heard, the diocese of Orange was considering a baldachin for the altar area. Not sure how that would work out, considering the organ.

 

[Wassermann]

I know Bishop Vann has been consulting with other bishops. The pews in the LA Cathedral were from a company that manufactures in Tijuana. Last I heard, the diocese of Orange was considering a baldachin for the altar area. Not sure how that would work out, considering the organ.

Those cherry wood pews in Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral are of extremely high quality. The shop in TJ was required to pay a living wage for everyone that worked on those specific pews. I forget how long the longest pew segments are at the cathedral (perhaps 30’?) but they cost $50K/each.

The organ is going to be reconfigured in terms of cabinetry. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. I pray that the remodel is beautiful and not a kludge. It honestly has the potential to be awesome or hideous. The best analogy I can think of is a classic car. If the car is restored and even changed/improved to service a new use, it can be beautiful. On the other hand if every little geegaw from the local Pep Boys Auto Parts store is slapped on it, the results will be hideous except to the tiny number approving the slapping. This would be especially true because Christ Cathedral is a very clean design unencumbered by loads of trinkets to begin with

Some have very stridently said that the naive should be rotated 90 degrees, turning Christ Cathedral into a bowling lane church. Something that was never envisioned by the original designer. If such a hideous kludge were to take place (and I pray that it does not), it would be an epic fail for the diocese.

 

[andrewstx]

Many would say Swann’s predecessor at the Crystal Cathedral, Virgil Fox was even better. No matter what, Christ Cathedral is sure to have an awesome organist.

I prefer Fox over Swann any day. But then I prefer Romantic music far more to Baroque.

I remember his concerts played on a Rogers electronic organ, along with light shows. He was trying to make the organ popular with young people. I was one way back then. But Virgil failed.

For years before the Christall Cathedral Virgil played at New York’s Riverside church.