Ex-Seminarians

[Sarabande]

I think there are many and various reasons why seminarians may leave. My father’s best friend was in the seminary for many years. It was expected in his very devout Italian-Catholic family that one son (the oldest) would become a priest. He entered the seminary around 12 or 13 and when he became a man in his early 20s, he realized that it wasn’t for him. He left, lived a little wildly for a bit, from what my father tells me (this was the 1970s), met a wonderful woman, got married, settled down and is probably one of the most devout and intelligent Catholic men I know.

I also have experienced of knowing former seminarians who still keep involved within the Church - a couple at my church are sacristans. One actually went back into the seminary after a long hiatus.

Others I know in the past certain seminaries were fraught with pretty bad corruption (before my time - I just know people who were around then) and those who didn’t play the game became disenchanted and left.

 

[vocatio]

Rumor has it that my former seminary has straightened up a lot since I left. The corruption was really that they should have banned some upper classmen from campus for the horrible things they did to younger seminarians. One walked around looking like he was going through shock therapy. It was extremely disheartening and one of the reasons I reacted so strongly when a priest and one of the same seminarians attempted passes on me. But supposedly things are changing for the better. We can only hope and pray.

We went to visit UD’s Holy Trinity Seminary not too long ago and were happy to see at least the existence of a minor seminary close to home in case my son decides to go there instead of FU. I’d prefer he stay close to home for the support. However FU would be great too for college and finding a bride if he decides to go in that direction instead. Lots of time still though.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Not sure where to post this question so thought this was best fit.

Our parish has over the past 40-years seen around 10 parishioners go to train for the priesthood and diaconate. But with the exception of only four, the rest not only dropped out, but dropped right out of the Church. To the best of my knowledge, none have ever returned to the faith.

So my question is: what is it they learn while training for ordination that spooks them so much they leave the Church completely?

I once asked a dear PP friend this question. He replied by pointing out that ‘little knowldge is a good thing’, whereas the deeper you go into theology, the more tenuous things can become. But that still leaves so many questions unanswered. Any ideas anyone?

Blessings and peace

As with postulants, so with seminarians: not everyone who might have a vocation to the priesthood or the religious life, does have one; so the vocations of such Christians will lie elsewhere.​

Seminarians don’t enter seminary because they are priests; they do so in order to learn whether they have a vocation to become priests. Those who leave, are not “spoiled priests” , they are not failures, they are not “bad Catholics”, they do not deserve to be ostracised or looked down. Matters have not been helped by the development of a tendency to exalt the priesthood by diminishing the vocations of the laity. This was unnecessary (though understandable, given the attacks on the priesthood at the Reformation), & the balance is now being righted.

Such attitudes were common at one time - perhaps because ordination to the priesthood was treated as a status symbol. It is not - it is a divine gift & a divine call, which is given to some, & not to others. No one has a right to be ordained, because no one has a right to the grace of being called to the priesthood, because no one can have a right to God’s grace.

To discern how God wishes us to serve Him in His Church & His world can be very confusing & difficult, so it may take a long time. Discernment is therefore a process, a many-sided one, & for many aspirants the judgement will be that, for one reason or another, the priestly or religious life is “not for them”. If it is not - something else will.

Something perhaps not always emphasised as it ought to be is that a vocation is not a purely individual thing; it is social as well as individual - it can never be purely private. The sanctification of the individual & of the Church are meant to go together; not to compete. So someone who thinks he might be called to be (say) a Benedictine, cannot attend to his own belief on the matter alone: if he is not good at living with others, no virtues he does possess are going to make him able to live that life - he would not be happy, & neither would the rest of the community; to accept him would be rash, not pious. Orthodoxy & piety, however solid & genuine, are simply not enough for that form of life; it is social, so a loner would not be suited to it, nor it to him. Human qualities like that are, in their own way, every bit as important as the more obviously supernatural gifts.

 

[mozier]

You will be in my prayers for your formation process. It is 5 years in my Archdiocese. What is it in yours.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Thank you, Deacon Ed! Ours (the Diocese of Pensacola-Tallahassee) is also a 5-year program.

 

[plato3]

Ditto on the good luck. Our program is 7 years.

God bless,
Deacon Tony

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Thank you, Deacon Ed! Ours (the Diocese of Pensacola-Tallahassee) is also a 5-year program.

Ditto on the good luck. Our program is 7 years.

God bless,
Deacon Tony

Don’t you find that our service as a deacon to be rewarding in ways you never expected. in fact, how could we find all those on the forum who are deacons. I wonder how many we are. I know there is one more who is Deacon Ed. Thats why I have to use Deacon Ed B. Any way to find out?
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[vocatio]

That’s a great question, one which I’ve asked myself as well. I’m in the process of working towards the diaconate. My wife and I are appraoching the date that we begin the first step starting in August I believe. It’s a 2 year course that is required before entering the diaconate program. That lasts 5 years I believe. Adn since the current diaconate formation is still in progress or coming to a close soon I’m afraid of missing the age requirements.

I’ll be 47 this year. It makes me nervous to think I might miss the requirements because of an age issue. To me it’s a natural direction that my wife helped knock me off years ago before she converted. My youngest child is 3 and our oldest is 13 and thinking about the priesthood. So in 7 years our youngest will be entering 5th grade. The oldest will hopefully be in the seminary by then. My current vocation is more important so that my children grow strong in the faith.

 

[FAB]

I can understand why a young man would have issues in a seminary and can certainly understand if they leave how it could effect their faith.
Although I have never been in a siminarian, my own path to the diaconate started about 6 years ago with now only a couple of more years of study before ordiantion. The process although very fullfilling is also very intense. My wife has been at my side throughout the process, but even she cannot fully understand the feelings experianced. If not for her and the great support of the other men and their wives in the program it would be much more difficult.
I think a young man who enters the seminary, finds himself in an alian world and there are those who have a difficult time to adjust. Failing in any other occupation may be tramatic, but it is not the same as failing in a vocation. I have reflected often on if I fail. How would I face parisheners, friends and family. I certainly know I would want to flee to someplace that no one would know me.
There are several analogies that might fit but the best may be the the process of making a sword. If you have seen any program on the process the raw material is heated and pounded with the process repeated, then shaped, tempered and sharpened. At the end is is a wonderful work of the blacksmith’s art.
When called to serve God, one must also accept that He is going to form and shape that person. It is rewarding, but also not without pain and doubt. In the end we become the wonderful work of the greatest blacksmith.

Peace,
FAB

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I think what I will do is start a new thread for “Deacons and Deacons to be”. in it we could discuss our experiences, trials, obligations, studies, etc. I think it would be a wonderful thread, and perhaps maybe even draw in some who may start thinking about becoming a deacon. We can all continue our discussions on that thread, so as not to hijack this one.
Prayers & blessings
deacon Ed B

 

[KCT]

When I hear of someone going into the seminary, I don’t assume that person will become a priest. Only that he is open to the possibility and willing to discern.

If a man spends years in the seminary then discerns he is not called to priesthood, so be it. If he received good formation, he will make an excellent husband if that turns out to be his calling.

 

[THurifer2]

My son dropped out of a seminary three years ago. He has not left the Church.

However, from what I know of that seminary (I do not know anything about the seminary in your diocese), it could be that it is not a good seminary and instead of teaching in line with the Catholic faith, teaches at least some things that are contrary to the faith.

My son told me that if he had stayed he could well have lost his faith.

I serve on a vocations committee. I must tell you that your Sons story is EXTREMELY common. You would be shocked at how many “traditional” minded young me (and some older) are run out of seminary by agenda driven crusaders. READ MICHAEL ROSE’S book “Goodbye, Good Men”. you will find it is widespread. Its happened very recently in our parish.

 

[chicago]

I think that discernment of a potential call to the priesthood is, for the man considering the possibility, a very personal thing. Any man who enters seminary with a serious sincerity has a very real sense that he is being drawn to something special and strongly desires to serve.

Then reality sets in. This can shake a guy. He learns that not everything is a wonderful walk through the garden with Jesus. You’re dealing with fallen people in a fallen world.

To boot, seminary is an environment like no other; which carries its own challenges. You have to come to terms with bureaucracies, politics, ideologies, personalities, practices which you may be uncomfortable with; all under a certain trial of stress and with great intensity.

Add to that the expectations of others in a family or at the parish who are, perhaps, unwittingly making more out of your situation than they should in their excitement and naivete. Or, conversely, a man may be having to deal with lots of dumb questions about, “Why in the world would you want to do THIS?” and battles with loved ones who don’t want him to go down this path.

So one day, he’s on a high, being pumped up and looked up to by everyone around him. The next day, he’s in the doldrums of “real life.”

On a side note, one former seminarian I know has satired this scenario well by noting how a lot of priests discover certain attractive vices, precisely due to such stresses. “It no wonder,” he says, “…that in 2nd year formation/study he turns to smoking!” (3rd year to food, 4th year to alcohol) creating a stereotypical stressed out priest who’s fat, smoking, run down, desperate for some sense of control in life, and drinks too much. (A scenario which, unfortunately, carries too much truth sometimes.)

Basically, once you get inside this system, you are dealing with things in a different way than before… its like seeing what really goes on within the sausage factory. That can not but affect a man - for life. His entire perspective on the Church is changed from that which the average layman experiences and how he understands the Church. The seminarian even gets to know priests in a different way, in a more personal manner. He comes to appreciate something of how a priest’s personal trials and struggles, even the difficult way that he experiences his parish community or others to whom he has to minister.

The seminarian may want spiritual growth which isn’t being fostered. He might face hardship in studies. His superiors may make life difficult. Or he might be at odds with his desires against those of others.

So, plainly, it is hard and challenging to be a seminarian, in practice. Really, I think that it can in some ways only be compared to the stresses which a man at war must endure. But, perhaps even more intense, since the seminarian is forced to go deeper, inside himself, to discover certain things about his personality, his beliefs, his relationships with others, his God. “What does it all mean? How am I to proceed? What can I do?” And he might not like where things are headed. He tries to find answers, but they may not readily come with clarity… or he just doesn’t like what he’s hearing and has to face.

At some point, if he has to leave (either through his own decision or someone else’s), it can leave him shaken, frustrated, disappointed, disillusioned. He may not receive a lot of support from the seminary, his superiors, his friends, his parish. He can find himself significantly isolated and have a hard time readjusting to “regular life.” And, now, he is in a unique spot in this world, being someone who sees the world, life in it, and people in general by a wounded (yet somewhat enlightened) way. He is also someone who has experienced something that not many are able to understand. His interactions with others around him might, therefore, be tense. It is quite likely that he, literally, wanders alone (at least initially, though perhaps for an extended time, too) and has to find his new way. That’s tough.

 

[chicago]

(continued)

I can understand (as someone who attended minor - high school - seminary and, therefore, have experienced some of this myself) why many men who entered strong in their faith might leave frustrated and angry, wondering even what they believe or where God and fellow man is for them. I often see it in the lives of others who I encounter that were once seminarians. (And, all the more intensely if they have only recently left.) It is something which lingers, which is always (at a certain level) just there. You carry it with you throughout life, as it has become a part of what shaped and molded you in your personal experience. It may not be always obvious or surface in the everyday, but it remains an essential aspect of who you are.

So, with this in mind, it may well take a lot to come to peace with such an experience and where it leads. Men may find it hard to retain solid trust in the Lord after all that. As such, it isn’t surprising what one former seminarian friend of mine has observed in that ex-seminarians often eventually find themselves in one of two extreme camps… either extremely dedicated to and involved in the life of the Church or very far from it.

Truly, the journeys of these men who have sacrificed so much to discern a vocation ought to be better respected. The hardship that they too often experience is something for which we ought to show greater sympathy. For this is a sad, and hidden scandal of our ecclesial life.

 

[Joseph]

Interesting.

I was in major seminary as a “delayed vocation” in my late 20s and early 30s until just shy of the diaconate. I have to admit at the outset that every seminarian brings a degree of idealism and naivitee about the priesthood that will be tested in seminary. I was no exception.

There was no one thing that caused me to leave the seminary, but more a milieux and an approach to formation.

Prayer is a critical foundation for priestly formation, but my seminary experience was overly geared to the head and “working the program”. Except for programmed community prayer times, there was not much time or support for individual prayer and prayer development. I was inclined toward more contemplative prayer but couldn’t develop the kind of prayer ground I needed.

We were a “community” and we did have friendships of course, but people seemed pretty much on their own.

Priestly identity was identified more with administration and service, and less with the sacramental life. I came to the seminary with experience in the helping professions and felt I was doing the samething, this time with a collar.

There was also the presence of a fairly evident gay culture. I liked all of the seminarians. From the “gossip” and “rumors” that tend to circulate in closed environments, I had to wonder if this was the community of people with which I wanted to be identified.

The main thing was that I almost lost my faith with the way scripture and theology were taught. I was willing to study theology and scripture and was receptive to being impacted by them. The very modernistic approach to biblical study resulted in me wondering if anything in Scripture and about the faith were authentic and true. To use an analogy: in military bootcamp, they “deconstruct” you in order to build you up into a new person. In seminary they did a good job deconstructing scripture and theology, which informs one’s faith, but didn’t do as well reconstructing it.

When I left the seminary, I couldn’t bring myself to associate myself with the church for several years. I felt numb and disconnected from the faith. But with time, I found my way back.

Having said that, there were many good seminarians and priests attempting a challenging undertaking.

In retrospect, maybe I should have stuck it out. My ego and sense of deserving were in full gear. Real spiritual growth comes with facing theological and social challenges and working them through in prayer and with others. Perhaps the truth is that spirituality isn’t something lived in your head alone or in isolated bliss. It’s lived and nurtured in and through life such as it is, and sometimes through the dark night of sheer faith.