Exactly which parts of the Extraordinary Form do the laity respond to?

[MacroConnectome]

I’ll be attending an EF Mass in a couple weekends and wanted to know which parts are to responded to.

It’s a Missa Cantata, and while I understand that historically the laity would respond to nothing in the Mass, I’ve been told that during the 60s there was what was called a “Dialogue Mass” in which the laity would respond to certain parts of the Ordo. Some who currently attend the EF exclusively have told me that modern EFs are like the Dialogue Mass.

 

[ProVobis]

I’ll be attending an EF Mass in a couple weekends and wanted to know which parts are to responded to.

It’s a Missa Cantata, and while I understand that historically the laity would respond to nothing in the Mass, I’ve been told that during the 60s there was what was called a “Dialogue Mass” in which the laity would respond to certain parts of the Ordo. Some who currently attend the EF exclusively have told me that modern EFs are like the Dialogue Mass.

In the EF, the servers make the responses. Otherwise, and depending on your community, you’re welcome to join in the Gloria and the Creed, the “Et cum spiritu tuo” and responses before the Preface.

 

[YoungTradCath]

In a Low Mass the servers do generally make the responses on the behalf of the people.

At a Missa Cantata or Solemn Mass however, all the responses are, of course, sung. So respond to your heart’s content. Also join with the Ordinary chants. I encourage you.

 

[MacroConnectome]

In the EF, the servers make the responses. Otherwise, and depending on your community, you’re welcome to join in the Gloria and the Creed, the “Et cum spiritu tuo” and responses before the Preface.

Just to be clear, this is going to be Missa Cantata. So no Kyrie, Sanctus, Pater Noster, or Dismissal?

Also, by “responses before the Preface” are you talking about the Sursum Corda part?

 

[MacroConnectome]

In a Low Mass the servers do generally make the responses on the behalf of the people.

At a Missa Cantata or Solemn Mass however, all the responses are, of course, sung. So respond to your heart’s content. Also join with the Ordinary chants. I encourage you.

What’s the distinction between “the Ordinary chants” and “the responses” that are sung? Isn’t all just the Ordo?

 

[ProVobis]

Just to be clear, this is going to be Missa Cantata. So no Kyrie, Sanctus, Pater Noster, or Dismissal?

The choir will sing the Kyrie and the Sanctus. Only the priest sings the Pater Noster but you may respond with the “Sed libera nos a malo.” at the end. And yes, the “Deo gratias” at the end of Mass as well.

Also, by “responses before the Preface” are you talking about the Sursum Corda part?

That’s it. Think you can handle that?

 

[YoungTradCath]

What’s the distinction between “the Ordinary chants” and “the responses” that are sung? Isn’t all just the Ordo?

By Ordinary chants I mean Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus and Agnus Dei. By the responses I mean “et cum spiritu tuo” and so on.

 

[MacroConnectome]

By Ordinary chants I mean Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus and Agnus Dei. By the responses I mean “et cum spiritu tuo” and so on.

OK. I’m getting slightly different answers from you an ProVobis. According to him(her) it’s only the Gloria and Credo. Can I just chalk this up to a difference in the locale?

 

[leahleah]

Probably. It can vary. Just go along with the rest of the congregation, unless that is too distracting. If you go there multiple times, you’ll get used to it quickly.

 

[YoungTradCath]

OK. I’m getting slightly different answers from you an ProVobis. According to him(her) it’s only the Gloria and Credo. Can I just chalk this up to a difference in the locale?

The Ordinary parts/chants of the Mass are generally regarded to be those chanted parts of the Mass that do not change and which are, in the best circumstances, sung: Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus and Agnus Dei. These are the parts of the Mass for which exist many settings, including those done by composers. For practical purposes I also include the Pater Noster since it doesn’t change and is also optimally sung.

The dialogues are different. They are part of the “Order” of Mass but are not what I’d call “Ordinary parts/chants” since they are not musical pieces but are rather dialogues and greetings and responsories which are nevertheless also optimally sung.

So you can (not in the EF) end up with the historically odd arrangement of having a Mass with loads of music without singing a single dialogue part. It’s done all the time in the USA.

 

[ProVobis]

OK. I’m getting slightly different answers from you an ProVobis. According to him(her) it’s only the Gloria and Credo. Can I just chalk this up to a difference in the locale?

I apologize for being forgetful of some of the responses. YoungTradCatholic is correct.

That said, don’t let the responses or not knowing what to say keep you away. No one will kick you out of church if you just quietly walk into and observe the EF. That is participation enough IMO.

 

[Chatter163]

The practice depends entirely on the community, so there really is no way to know until you go. In my parish, the current and previous pastor preferred that all weekday Low Masses not be Dialogue Masses; only one Low Mass on Sunday is Dialogue. (This is because different people respond at different speeds, and it can really throw the priest off.) Earlier pastors had different preferences.

 

[MacroConnectome]

Thanks everyone for you help.

I have another question now. I’ve been perusing some YouTube vids of EF missa cantatas, and I’ve noticed that in many places the priest gets significantly ahead of the cantor/schola (the most prominent example being the creed). In such cases, do the laity in the pews follow what the Altar Servers and Priest are doing or do they follow along with what the schola/cantor are doing? For example, the priest and altar servers may be coming across the “et incarnatus est” part where it is proscribed that we kneel, yet the cantor may barely be getting to “et in unum Dominum Jesum Christum”. In such a case should the laity kneel along with the priest and altar servers, or remain standing and only kneel once the schola/cantor reach the “et incarnatus est”?

 

[Spudbynight]

Probably. It can vary. Just go along with the rest of the congregation, unless that is too distracting. If you go there multiple times, you’ll get used to it quickly.

At Low Mass the faithful are not supposed to make any responses (including the Credo and the Gloria). The responses are made by the server.

There is an exception permitted whereby the faithful may make the responses. This is in what is called a dialogue Mass. It is at the sole discretion of the celebrant as to whether Mass is celebrated as a dialogue Mass or not.

Dialogue Masses were initially prohibited. They started being celebrated during the 1920s I believe, and after this an indult was issued.

If you are new to a parish and nobody else is responding - then don’t respond to anything.

 

[ProVobis]

In such a case should the laity kneel along with the priest and altar servers, or remain standing and only kneel once the schola/cantor reach the “et incarnatus est”?

One can do both, but generally the congregation follows the more audible schola.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Thanks everyone for you help.

I have another question now. I’ve been perusing some YouTube vids of EF missa cantatas, and I’ve noticed that in many places the priest gets significantly ahead of the cantor/schola (the most prominent example being the creed). In such cases, do the laity in the pews follow what the Altar Servers and Priest are doing or do they follow along with what the schola/cantor are doing? For example, the priest and altar servers may be coming across the “et incarnatus est” part where it is proscribed that we kneel, yet the cantor may barely be getting to “et in unum Dominum Jesum Christum”. In such a case should the laity kneel along with the priest and altar servers, or remain standing and only kneel once the schola/cantor reach the “et incarnatus est”?

Yes, the priest is required to recite for himself. So he will intone the Gloria, wait a second, then finish the rest of it by speaking it to himself, usually at a rather rapid pace. Often the schola will not begin with the rest until two or three seconds after the intonation and you will hear a second or two of the priest’s recitation before you hear music.

In my experience the usual practice is that you genuflect twice, as the priest does. Once when he does in his recitation, then once again at the sung “et incarnatus est.” I’m sure some communities are different, however. Just do what everyone else does. Sit in the middle.

 

[Chatter163]

I have assisted at EF Masses throughout the country. I have only seen a couple of places where the faithful kneel when the priest initially does during the creed. Usually they kneel when the choir reaches the Et incarnatus.