Excessive Individualism

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Greetings to all,

Is excessive individualism in North American a problem? Where people are no longer saying “Ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country.”

God bless,
Ut
 
Excessive individualism is certainly a problem in the White House with the current monarch. 😉
 
Yes, I think it is a problem and I think it’s going to get worse because people are teaching their children to be that way.
 
Right, but what are the alternatives? Highly communal countries like Japan and China are examples that come to mind where folks there are much more aware of their place in society and the role they play in maintaining the public order (or at least older generations were). Can we learn anything from these societies? Or perhaps we should look to the centuries before the reformation. Is there anything we can learn from our own history in terms of the balance between individual rights and communal responsibilities? Do we want to return to a society where it was a crime to be a heretic? Or where the whim of a monarch could determine the religious identity of an entire kingdom?

God bless,
Ut
 
utunumsint said:
Do we want to return to a society where it was a crime to be a heretic? Or where the whim of a monarch could determine the religious identity of an entire kingdom?
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No, but we also don’t want to become a society where it is heresy to be patriotic.

The balance between individualism and conformity has always been an ongoing problem in virtually every civilization. Christ wants us to all conform to his teaching, to be united as one just as he and the Father are one. Some regard that as an infringement of their freedom. His answer?

“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:32
 
utunumsint said:
Greetings to all,

Is excessive individualism in North American a problem? Where people are no longer saying “Ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country.”

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, almost everything in the USA points to individualism as being out for yourself instead of an individual that is part of a group.

Take advertising. How many commercials tell you that ‘you deserve this’? Why do you deserve something? Does that mean someone else doesn’t? How many commercials tell you to tell your doctor what medicine you need instead of having you rely on your doctor’s training and need.

In religious matters, ‘let your conscience be your guide’ has become the norm. Just me and the Holy Spirit, or me and Jesus, is very common. I love the ‘I’m not religious, but I’m spiritual’ (aka, I can’t be bothered joining a church or being part of a community).

I think the Internet is making it worse. People don’t have to go to a library to look things up. There is no reason to ask a specialist about something. You can learn to do anything without have to interact.
 
I agree, but that does commit us to seemingly arbitrary decisions to prop up one certain communal ideal which in certain cases makes other ideals illegitimate or even criminal.

For example, in my country, Canada, the charter of rights and freedoms, article 7, has just been used to justify doctor assisted suicide.
  1. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.
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Using fairly twisted logic, it is now a human right to be able to ask a doctor to kill you when you’ve had enough with this life. This ruling favours the rights of a few, those who want to end their lives, against the former law that banned doctor assisted suicide in favour of protecting the much larger group of those vulnerable to being coerced by others into requesting such a doctor assisted service.

It just seems to me that again and again the whim of a few gets green light almost continually, with massive negative repercussions against the many.

It seems to me that we have lost sight of the good of the many by focusing exclusively on the perceived good of the few, or rather the perceived right of the few to decide what is good for them, and therefore for everyone. If it were lest of a politician decision, most provinces in Canada would never allow such a law.

God bless,
Ut
 
utunumsint said:
Greetings to all,

Is excessive individualism in North American a problem? Where people are no longer saying “Ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country.”

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
Not sure I’d call it “individualism”…but we certainly have a problem with rampant entitlement, greed, narcissim…
 
utunumsint said:
Greetings to all,

Is excessive individualism in North American a problem? Where people are no longer saying “Ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country.”

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
Considering that same POTUS later required, in the name of “the country,” that over 50,000 citizens die in a war that should have never been fought, I’m glad that saying has been retired.

ICXC NIKA.
 
utunumsint said:
Greetings to all,

Is excessive individualism in North American a problem? Where people are no longer saying “Ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country.”

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
There has been cultural and social fragmentation in the West that has been developing over the past 40 years. Pope Benedict identifies and clarifies it in this statement:

“We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires. The church must defend itself against threats such as “radical individualism” and “vague religious mysticism”. [emphasis added]”

When President John F. Kennedy said those words, he was inspiring a nation to join with the Federal government in improving the lives of people everywhere. Our country was much more unified then. That’s why President Kennedy established the Peace Corps in 1961. The idea of being a good neighbor and as the Church reminds us today, of caring for “the other,” meant sharing our talents and our abilities, and thinking beyond just ourselves.

Ed
 
utunumsint said:
Greetings to all,

Is excessive individualism in North American a problem? Where people are no longer saying “Ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country.”

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
Or when they took God out of school. Look at this world now, when you take God out the devil enters. And boy is it getting worse.
 
edwest2 said:
There has been cultural and social fragmentation in the West that has been developing over the past 40 years. Pope Benedict identifies and clarifies it in this statement:

“We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires. The church must defend itself against threats such as “radical individualism” and “vague religious mysticism”. [emphasis added]”

When President John F. Kennedy said those words, he was inspiring a nation to join with the Federal government in improving the lives of people everywhere. Our country was much more unified then. That’s why President Kennedy established the Peace Corps in 1961. The idea of being a good neighbor and as the Church reminds us today, of caring for “the other,” meant sharing our talents and our abilities, and thinking beyond just ourselves.

Ed
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I agree with this, 100%. But we need a plan. What concrete steps does the North American culture need to go through to regain a culture that where caring for “the other,” meant sharing our talents and our abilities, and thinking beyond just ourselves.

God bless,
Ut
 
What exactly is “excessive individualism”?

Would it be like “excessive Catholicism”?

or maybe…“excessive liberalism”

or, better yet…how about “excessive altruism”???
 
utunumsint said:
It just seems to me that again and again the whim of a few gets green light almost continually, with massive negative repercussions against the many.

It seems to me that we have lost sight of the good of the many by focusing exclusively on the perceived good of the few, or rather the perceived right of the few to decide what is good for them, and therefore for everyone. If it were lest of a politician decision, most provinces in Canada would never allow such a law.

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
You have made a fair point.

My own take is that more and more the physicians and politicians of every nation are losing their morals and their common sense.

More judges are willing to approve, and more physicians are willing to assist in suicide.

More judges in America have approved, and more physicians are willing to perform abortions.

More politicians in more states are willing to vote outrageous laws in favor of sodomy, whereas in the old days both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson favored extreme penalties for sodomy.

Satan is a radical liberal. He loves hope and change.

He loves to hope we change from morality to vice.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
No, but we also don’t want to become a society where it is heresy to be patriotic.

The balance between individualism and conformity has always been an ongoing problem in virtually every civilization. Christ wants us to all conform to his teaching, to be united as one just as he and the Father are one. Some regard that as an infringement of their freedom. His answer?

“Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:32
Click to expand...
Be careful of blind patriotism “my country can do no wrong”. Id hate to see you die in a war that was unjust to begin with.
 
utunumsint said:
I agree with this, 100%. But we need a plan. What concrete steps does the North American culture need to go through to regain a culture that where caring for “the other,” meant sharing our talents and our abilities, and thinking beyond just ourselves.

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
Spend less time with the media. Find groups at a your Church that are ministering. Make friends with other Catholics who are ministering. We need strong Catholic communities. And if not at your Church, any other Catholic Church, which doesn’t mean switching where you go to Mass.

Ed
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Excessive individualism is certainly a problem in the White House with the current monarch. 😉
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I think you are confusing people who disagree with your views and priorities, as being too ‘individualistic’

Actually excessive individualism is what the Pope has been talking about many times - the culture of selfishness and self-centered behavior. See catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/07/25/wyd-2013-help-to-put-an-end-to-injustices-pope-urges-rio-slum-dwellers/ and ncregister.com/daily-news/cardinal-tackles-libertarian-individualism-as-harmful-to-solidarity/

Even Pope Benedict has talked about it, see catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1200143.htm or see catholicsocialteaching.org.uk/themes/solidarity/resources/solidarity-thought-pope-john-paul-ii/

The opposite of excessive individualism is solidarity, not ‘patriotism’
 
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