Excommunication - In Detail?

[Fonjo]

I want details on what excommunication means for the person being excommunicated. I think I understand it completely but need details.

Once excommunicated are you no longer Catholic? Or are you just seperated and still considered Catholic, just damned?

Is excommunication final with no chance of reversal or repentence?

If not, is the original baptism still considered valid after “redemption”?

How can a person go about removing themselves from being considered Catholic without the use of such “extreme” methods?

Is that even possible? If not, how does one go about getting excommunicated?

(I would like to note, I am asking for information on this and do not want to hear any “are you considering this” or “why” or “maybe you don’t understand the ramifications of this”. I want details on this procedure and the above questions. That is all.)

Thank you in advance. =)

 

[cameron_lansing]

Fonjo:

I want details on what excommunication means for the person being excommunicated. I think I understand it completely but need details.

As I understand it, you seeking a response to your questions for purposes of clarifying rather than seeking to get excommunicated.

I could not as a cleric or a canon lawyer give “how to” advice for a person seeking to become excommunicated in the concrete for moral and professional reasons. This would involve complicity in a materially evil act.

If you just want information, please post again to that effect just to make this clear, and I will answer your questions briefly. Excommunication in detail is the proper subject for an entire book and not a forum discussion.

Penal process is a complicated topic of study even for canon lawyers. I do not know many — if any — of my colleagues who would think even they understand it completely. It is not a topic where the well intentioned and casually acquainted should walk into without fear of inflicting spiritual damage on others.

 

[b_justb]

Fonjo:

I want details on what excommunication means for the person being excommunicated. I think I understand it completely but need details.

Once excommunicated are you no longer Catholic? Or are you just seperated and still considered Catholic, just damned?

Is excommunication final with no chance of reversal or repentence?

If not, is the original baptism still considered valid after “redemption”?

How can a person go about removing themselves from being considered Catholic without the use of such “extreme” methods?

Is that even possible? If not, how does one go about getting excommunicated?

(I would like to note, I am asking for information on this and do not want to hear any “are you considering this” or “why” or “maybe you don’t understand the ramifications of this”. I want details on this procedure and the above questions. That is all.)

Thank you in advance. =)

Maybe think about asking this in the Apologetics forum? Plenty of smart cookies with referenced stuff there that I am sure will tackle your question with zeal.

 

[Scott_Waddell]

Fonjo:

I want details on what excommunication means for the person being excommunicated. I think I understand it completely but need details.

Once excommunicated are you no longer Catholic? Or are you just seperated and still considered Catholic, just damned?

Excommunication means one is barred from the sacraments, not that one is condemned to Hell. As best as I can tell the person is still Catholic, but under a canonical penalty.

Is excommunication final with no chance of reversal or repentence?

No. The whole purpose of excommunication is to get the person under it to repent.

If not, is the original baptism still considered valid after “redemption”?

Yes, it is still valid. Valid baptisms are permanent.

How can a person go about removing themselves from being considered Catholic without the use of such “extreme” methods?

Just tell anyone interested that they are not Catholic. There is no official “he’s not Catholic” procedure I am aware of.

Is that even possible? If not, how does one go about getting excommunicated?

Generally by doing an act that has a canonical penalty of excommunication attached to it.

Scott

 

[Scholastic17]

Excommunication in and of itself isn’t nearly as bad as people think it is. Think of it this way: You are at the dinner table with your parents. You start flinging food around and cussin. Your parents are naturally gonna tell you to leave the table. When you calm down and apologize, naturally they are gonna forgive you and let you come to the table.

  This is what excommunication is: You are still Catholic, but you can't recieve **any** of the sacraments until you go to confession by which the excommunication is lifted.

  Now, here's where it gets slightly tricky. There are two ways to be excommunicated. The first way to get excommunicated is by commiting a mortal sin in which there is a penalty of latent excommunication. Ie, you excommunicate yourself by the act itself. For example...if you commit abortion. All you have to do is get absolved.

However, you can also get excommunicated by a bishop for certain mortal sins, usually if the sin is done publically and causes scandal. If it was a bishop that excommunicated you or a higher up then he, then you must recieve absolution from that bishop.

  If you die in a state of excommunication, it is generally inferred that, because you didn't seek penance or absolution, you probably die in that sin. However, if you desire absolution and die before you can get it, and you make an act of penance, then you are probably forgiven.

However, you still probably won’t be buried. But consider this: Burial is not a sacrament. Burial isn’t done for the sake of the dead. A burial is giving for the sake of those attending the burial…to put their minds at ease…essentially.

Does this clear things up for you?

 

[1ke]

Fonjo:

I want details on what excommunication means for the person being excommunicated. I think I understand it completely but need details.

You can find a good article on Excommunication here .

The last part of the article is not up to date, as it is from the 1913 encyclopedia.

Canon Law governs offenses that result in Excommunication. Canon Law can be found here

Fonjo:

How can a person go about removing themselves from being considered Catholic without the use of such “extreme” methods?

A formal act of leaving the church is governed by Canon 1364:

Can. 1364 ß1 An apostate from the faith, a heretic or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication

So, joining another church, removing yourself from the roles of your parish, and/or publically announcing your are no longer Catholic is a formal act that would incur excommunication.

 

[Mike_D30]

“1463 Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop of the place or priests authorized by them. In danger of death any priest, even if deprived of faculties for hearing confessions, can absolve from every sin and excommunication”

 

[Walking_Home]

Fonjo:

I want details on what excommunication means for the person being excommunicated. I think I understand it completely but need details.

Once excommunicated are you no longer Catholic? Or are you just seperated and still considered Catholic, just damned?

Is excommunication final with no chance of reversal or repentence?

If not, is the original baptism still considered valid after “redemption”?

How can a person go about removing themselves from being considered Catholic without the use of such “extreme” methods?

Is that even possible? If not, how does one go about getting excommunicated?

(I would like to note, I am asking for information on this and do not want to hear any “are you considering this” or “why” or “maybe you don’t understand the ramifications of this”. I want details on this procedure and the above questions. That is all.)

Thank you in advance. =)

---

I will try to answer this one.
If what you are asking is-- if a person, on their own can excommunicate themselves out of the Church, without the Church officially declaring them excommunicated.

examples:

1. Rejecting the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ.–He was only a fully human man, whose total submission of His will to the Holy Spirit gave him the Word, and because of his sacrifice on the cross, God raised him and He is now at the right hand of the Father. (This will also make a person non-christian).
2. Rejecting our Most Holy Sacrifice.–His Holy Sacrifice is not a reality that we experience in each and every Mass—instead replacing it with something like–offering our bodies as a living sacrifice. ( Hey, it worked for Jesus).
3. rejecting the Church as the Ark of Salvation—She is not Holy, established by our Lord Jesus, divinely quided by the Holy Spirit that leads us to Christ, so what we know as the Church (Most Holy Sacrifice, our Mass, traditions, etc.) – is nothing more then a made up human institution full of superstition, rules and regulations.

Within the above are sins like abortion etc.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Fonjo:

IHow can a person go about removing themselves from being considered Catholic …?

Simply write a letter to your local bishop stating as much. If you are in the United States, you can find his address here.

 

[Everstruggling]

Hey Everyone,

I just wanted to see if I understand this correctly.

Even if no one has officially said so, the fact that I no longer go to church; I no longer believe the teachings of the Catholic church; and I paid the costs for a woman’s abortion: I am excommunicated. Is that right?

(I’m going to get flamed aren’t I? Sigh.)

If I further understand it correctly: I would need to be absolved by a bishop or higher unless I was in imminent danger of dying.

Did I completely misunderstand that?

 

[Scott_Waddell]

Everstruggling:

Hey Everyone,

I just wanted to see if I understand this correctly.

Even if no one has officially said so, the fact that I no longer go to church; I no longer believe the teachings of the Catholic church; and I paid the costs for a woman’s abortion: I am excommunicated. Is that right?

I’m going to deal with this as a hypothetical, so you are right. A baptized Catholic in the above scenario would be barred from receiving the sacraments. Of course if it was never revealed, they could still receive the sacraments on the sly so to speak (however they would be invalid).

(I’m going to get flamed aren’t I? Sigh.)

Not by me. Ask a sincere question. Get a sincere answer.

If I further understand it correctly: I would need to be absolved by a bishop or higher unless I was in imminent danger of dying.

Not necessarily. The are exceptions under canon law and there may be a general allowance for priests to handle cases specific to abortion, but that is out of my depth.

Scott

 

[1ke]

Everstruggling:

Even if no one has officially said so, the fact that I no longer go to church; I no longer believe the teachings of the Catholic church; and I paid the costs for a woman’s abortion: I am excommunicated. Is that right?

Whether or not you have been excommunicated depends on several factors. The canons are complicated. And, as to abortion, I recommend this article as you may or may not have incurred excommunication because of it.

Everstruggling:

(I’m going to get flamed aren’t I? Sigh.)

No. These are all serious things, but none are unforgiveable. God is always there for you, even when you don’t feel it or believe it. Are you interested in reconciling with the Church?

Everstruggling:

If I further understand it correctly: I would need to be absolved by a bishop or higher unless I was in imminent danger of dying. Did I completely misunderstand that?

Actually, no, as the article explains there are priests who are able to hear the confession regarding abortion. And, as for having stopped going to church-- you can confess that and start going again.