Excommunication in the Orthodox Church

[ConstantineTG]

If a Bishop of an Orthodox Church, for example the Greek Orthodox, excommunicates someone, is he automatically excommunicated from the other Orthodox Churches in communion with the Greek Orthodox Church? Like is that person excommunicated from the Russian Orthodox Church as well or perhaps they recognize the excommunication and thus if the person is not in communion with the Church they are in communion with, then they cannot be in communion with their Church?

 

[Hesychios]

If any one of the clergy or laity who is excommunicated, or not to be received, shall go away, and be received in another city without commendatory letters, let both the receiver and the received be excommunicated. But if he be excommunicated already, let the time of his excommunication be lengthened.
Apostolic Canon XII & XIII

Concerning those, whether of the clergy or of the laity, who have been excommunicated in the several provinces, let the provision of the canon be observed by the bishops which provides that persons cast out by some be not readmitted by others. Nevertheless, inquiry should be made whether they have been excommunicated through captiousness, or contentiousness, or any such like ungracious disposition in the bishop. And, that this matter may have due investigation, it is decreed that in every province synods shall be held twice a year, in order that when all the bishops of the province are assembled together, such questions may by them be thoroughly examined, that so those who have confessedly offended against their bishop, may be seen by all to be for just cause excommunicated, until it shall seem fit to a general meeting of the bishops to pronounce a milder sentence upon them. And let these synods be held, the one before Lent, (that the pure Gift may be offered to God after all bitterness has been put away), and let the second be held about autumn.
Nicea [325AD] Canon 5

 

[Cavaradossi]

If a Bishop of an Orthodox Church, for example the Greek Orthodox, excommunicates someone, is he automatically excommunicated from the other Orthodox Churches in communion with the Greek Orthodox Church? Like is that person excommunicated from the Russian Orthodox Church as well or perhaps they recognize the excommunication and thus if the person is not in communion with the Church they are in communion with, then they cannot be in communion with their Church?

Ideally, if somebody is excommunicated by a bishop in one jurisdiction, that excommunication should carry over to other jurisdictions. Sadly, this is not always the case, and so some people will try to slip under the radar through jurisdiction hopping. This is especially a problem in America due to the presence of multiple overlapping jurisdictions.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Ideally, if somebody is excommunicated by a bishop in one jurisdiction, that excommunication should carry over to other jurisdictions. Sadly, this is not always the case, and so some people will try to slip under the radar through jurisdiction hopping. This is especially a problem in America due to the presence of multiple overlapping jurisdictions.

I think this is whats happening in the situation I have seen. Or maybe I am wrong, hopefully. Someone jumped jurisdictions to get ordination, was excommunicated from the previous jurisdiction, but continues to serve as clergy of the new jurisdiction. Or perhaps they are excommunicated from the new jurisdiction but they only act as if they are not and the new jurisdiction is not aware they are practicing their ministry.

 

[Cavaradossi]

I think this is whats happening in the situation I have seen. Or maybe I am wrong, hopefully. Someone jumped jurisdictions to get ordination, was excommunicated from the previous jurisdiction, but continues to serve as clergy of the new jurisdiction. Or perhaps they are excommunicated from the new jurisdiction but they only act as if they are not and the new jurisdiction is not aware they are practicing their ministry.

Those are all possibilities. It could also be that the new jurisdiction knows and simply doesn’t care. The multiple jurisdiction issue in America is messy business.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Those are all possibilities. It could also be that the new jurisdiction knows and simply doesn’t care. The multiple jurisdiction issue in America is messy business.

This is not in America, but yes there are two jurisdictions in the area I am talking about. It may be because both jurisdictions are fighting to claim the area as their own, exclusively. So even though the person is excommunicated from one jurisdiction, he was welcomed with the other.

It is indeed messy business. No offense, but times like this I’m grateful that Catholics have the Pope. I’m sure the Vatican would intervene when there is a fight between two jurisdictions over a territory, especially if there are now excommunications involved.

 

[Cavaradossi]

These things tend to just take care of themselves. For example, some people love to play up the sometimes tense situation between the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the Moscow Patriarchate as being evidence that Orthodoxy is unstable and teetering on the edge of a massive schism or something. What they don’t realize is that the worst case scenario had already happened several decades ago when the Russian Orthodox Church struck the Ecumenical Patriarch from its diptychs over a jurisdictional dispute in Estonia, if I recall correctly. The dispute took care of itself eventually.

We also see things like the ROCOR-Moscow reunion after decades of schism between ROCOR and its mother church. The lack of a centralized authority is really not as scary as it seems, nor is having a centralized authority quite as effective for promoting unity as it might seem on paper.

 

[Cristiano]

I am not sure even in the case of the Catholic Church. I would assume that if you are excommunicated in the Latin Church then you are excommunicated from all the other suis juris Catholic Churches because they are all in communion; however I am not aware of any document stating so.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I am not sure even in the case of the Catholic Church. I would assume that if you are excommunicated in the Latin Church then you are excommunicated from all the other suis juris Catholic Churches because they are all in communion; however I am not aware of any document stating so.

You probably are. The scenario I’m seeing is if two Churches disagree on the excommunication of one, especially because this one is a clergy on the second Church.

 

[Hesychios]

No offense, but times like this I’m grateful that Catholics have the Pope. I’m sure the Vatican would intervene when there is a fight between two jurisdictions over a territory, especially if there are now excommunications involved.

I do understand how you feel.

This is a double edged sword though. If you accept the Pope’s authority to make this kind of decision on his own (essentially, usually his Vatican staffers advising him and making decisions in his name) then you also have to accept without question his decisions.

Therefore (for just one example), when the Supreme Authority looks at the situation in North America and knows that 98% of all Catholics are Latin rite Catholics, he can say that for the greater good of the church as a whole the married priesthood among the Eastern Catholics has to go (something he actually did do more than once). In good conscience we can’'t say he made a mistake, or that he was unfair, or that he broke some promises along the way. He is actually doing his job, and sometimes you have to ‘break some eggs to make an omlette’, or break some hearts.

Once we leave the conciliar model of the church behind and embrace this new model (final authority with no recourse), we have to believe in it and trust it and obey it without complaint, or risk it will fail. We have to buy in to it totally. We cannot disregard it, or obey only when we like what the Supreme Authority decides, that would undermine the system and erode the authority which makes us ‘so grateful’ when it settles disputes of the type you mention here.