Existance of hell

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Nelka said:
If a buddhist or a muslim has rejected Jesus Christ, how will they get to Heaven?
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They don’t. Anyone who has consciously and deliberately rejected Christ and his Church and dies unrepentant condemns themselves to Hell.
Deliberately and consciously rejecting is an action not consistent with invincible ignorance.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Also there’s the ‘temporal’ misunderstanding.

How often I hear people say, “How could a loving God condemn FOREVER people who only sinned for a time? it’s not fair!”

And it wouldn’t be fair. . .but that is not what happens.

When we die, if we repent our sins, even if it is with the very last ‘nanosecond’ fraction of our last breath. . .we can be forgiven.

However, if we do NOT repent our MORTAL sins (remember this means the sin must be grave matter, must be committed with full knowledge, and with full consent ) at death, then, by definition, we’re still sinning right? If sin separates us from God (it does) and we do not repent and return to God, we are still separated, aren’t we? And once we enter eternity, time as we know it ceases to exist for us. Therefore if we enter in a state of mortal sin, we CONTINUE in that mortal sin, forever.

So the consequence of unrepented mortal sin at death is that the sin continues in eternity and thus the free choice of hell also continues for eternity. There is no ‘time’ in which the person will say, “Gee, what’s the matter with me? i’ve suffered for 50,000 years and now I’m sorry”. The whole idea that a person with unrepented mortal sin will somehow at some ‘time’ be sorry is wrong.

So --how does a loving God handle the freely chosen choice of a person to sin mortally and to refuse to repent?

Like the old trick logic question of ‘can God make a boulder too heavy for him to lift’ --a nonsense question because God cannot do ‘stupid’. . .

the idea that God could somehow ‘make’ eternity into something different whereby eternity becomes ‘temporal’ and thus would enable a person to ‘change his mind’ after x amount of ‘time’ is another nonsense concept. God does not simultaneously exist and not exist; God does not simultaneously make a given action both good and evil, and God does NOT simultaneously allow eternity to be both ‘beyond’ time and ‘part of time’.

Again, it is not a question of God being ‘mean’. It is a misunderstanding of what God, and love, and sin all are. God is love but love is justice along with mercy. It is not ‘mercy whether the person asks for it or not, mercy even if the person won’t accept it’, because that would not be mercy at all.

If you were dying of poison, knew it, knew there was an antidote, but freely chose not to take the antidote because you wanted to punish your spouse, make them feel guilty over your death, make your children orphans in poverty, and above all wanted to make it clear that you didn’t believe in any kind of afterlife. . .but your doctor ‘forced’ you to take the antidote–you would sue him for malpractice, and as soon as possible, go and take the poison again, because it was more important for you to inflict suffering on others and you didn’t ‘believe’ in any afterlife anyway. (you’ll say this is crazy and sadly it isn’t at all. People are capable of much good but they are also capable of evil, and freely choose it.)

Even if you were a being who lived 1000 years, 10,000, 100,000, you would still go on taking that poison if you had the antidote’ forced on you. No matter how merciful it would seem to ‘rescue’ somebody from death, that kind of person would see the ‘mercy’ as something dreadful, in fact as a terrible punishment. So the idea that God’s mercy MUST be perceived as mercy by every soul is also wrong. The offer of salvation is great mercy to those who choose it, but it would be an eternal torment to those who reject it.
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well said:thumbsup: as for other faiths going to hell or don’t know God you have to remember cyrus from the old testament who was a pagan and didn’t know the true God yet God used him in his plan to re establish the jewish temple and was even reffered to has the messiah or annoited one.
 
My understanding of Hell is that it is the state of your soul if you die having turned away from God. Eternal damnation may sound heartless, but I figure we have two choices. Choose God and your soul rests with him for eternity…choose not to acknowledge God and your soul will be left is a state of unrest, unhappiness, joylessness.
 
mikeyrobbie said:
Forgive me brothers and sisters in the Church,

But I’m having a hard time believing an existence in hell… I really would rather believe that an all knowing and loving God who is probably one of the most enlightened and merciful in the history of man condemns people to suffer forever…

I’m questioning the fact that all my Buddhist, Muslim, Orthodox, Jewish, and Protestant friends and family members who are happy in their faiths are condemned to hell…

I just can’t bring myself to believe it… I tried talking to my parish priest and asking him about it and all he said was that “Hell is there; accept it and get over it.”

I refuse to believe it… And it’s sad because I’m willing to continue the belief that all are eventually reconciled with God…

Call me a heretic or universalist if you must; but an all loving God could not be so cruel to let people “burn in hell.” He created us in his image and even says he loves everyone…

I refuse to believe in eternal suffering…
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But some people don’t want to be with God. Will God make them do so anyway?
 
Zenkai said:
When did God say that?

I’m pretty sure Protestants and Orthodox Christians will make it to Heaven as well.
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First one must understand what it is meant by being “outside” the church.
 
What your missing is that Hell is the consequence of Free Will.

With no Hell, you cannot truely give people Free Will. This was discovered by Plato prior to the coming of Christ.

It’s all about the answer to the question

“Does the universe make sense?”

If there is no consequence to a vicous life, then we have no true choices.

Read all about it in “The Order of Things” by Fr James Shall, S.J.

amazon.com/Order-Things-Father-James-Schall/dp/1586171976
 
St. Faustina is a popular saint today. One day she was escorted by an angel to see hell, tho she didn’t want to see it. But at the insistance of God, she went. I won’t bother with all the terrible details but there is one thing I found interesting. She said that she discovered while she was there that MOST of the people in hell did NOT BELIEVE in hell while on earth. I suppose it wouldn’t be stretch to say, anyone not believing in hell might seriously consider changing their mind. At least looking at it from her research.

Just a tiny thought.
 
mikeyrobbie said:
Forgive me brothers and sisters in the Church,

But I’m having a hard time believing an existence in hell… I really would rather believe that an all knowing and loving God who is probably one of the most enlightened and merciful in the history of man condemns people to suffer forever…

I’m questioning the fact that all my Buddhist, Muslim, Orthodox, Jewish, and Protestant friends and family members who are happy in their faiths are condemned to hell…

I just can’t bring myself to believe it… I tried talking to my parish priest and asking him about it and all he said was that “Hell is there; accept it and get over it.”

I refuse to believe it… And it’s sad because I’m willing to continue the belief that all are eventually reconciled with God…

Call me a heretic or universalist if you must; but an all loving God could not be so cruel to let people “burn in hell.” He created us in his image and even says he loves everyone…

I refuse to believe in eternal suffering…
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I think I answered this post already somewhere !!!
Is it the second time the same question?
 
E_Thrower_II said:
lol. Please clarify, book, chapter, and verse please.
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Firstly, Thrower, you’ll need to offer a verse that says we must justify all of our theological beliefs by citing book, chapter and verse.

Otherwise, your statement is begging the question.
 
Evan said:
What your missing is that Hell is the consequence of Free Will.

With no Hell, you cannot truely give people Free Will. This was discovered by Plato prior to the coming of Christ.
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Yes. This brings to mind a quote by Peter Kreeft:

As Catholic philosopher Peter Kreeft explains, “Imagine a man in hell—no, a ghost—endlessly chasing his own shadow, as the light of God shines endlessly behind him.** If he would only turn and face the light, he would be saved. But he refuses to—forever.” **

That is hell.

He goes on to say,

“Hell follows from two other doctrines: heaven and free will. If there is a heaven, there can be a not-heaven. And if there is free will, we can act on it and abuse it. Those who deny hell must also deny either heaven (as does Western secularism) or free will (as does Eastern pantheism).”
 
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