Experience Extreme Doubt

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d.stephenson

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I have been experiencing intense doubt about God’s existence for a while, but especially since COVID began. This is a strange feeling for me because I love attending Mass, Confession, and I pray the Divine Office daily.

My main reason for doubt is all the suffering in the world. I’ve heard and read all the arguments that attempt to explain suffering, and I just find them intellectually and morally bankrupt. I don’t say that to be rude and confrontational, it’s honestly how I feel. If there truly is an all-powerful, and all-loving God, why not intervene? I’ve been finding myself convinced by the simplicity of the argument that suffering exists because there’s no all-loving and all-powerful God. It’s hard to come to terms with this, but it seems to best describe the world we live in.

My second major reason for doubt is why so many prayers go unanswered. I’m not talking about trivial prayers like God choosing sides in a football game; I’m referring to prayers such as healing a child of their cancer. My priest used to tell me God knows what’s best for us. To an extent, I understand this; however, the idea that there is no God to hear our prayers, although difficult to accept, seems far more genuine.

As cracks appeared in my faith, I have read books on cosmology, physical anthropology (human origins), and the history of world religions. The more I read and learn, the more profound the crumbling of my faith.

One the one hand, I feel a sense of loss. I will miss my priests, attending Mass, the sense of community, etc. On the other hand, I find my new thoughts far more convincing than what I used to believe.

I’m not looking for people to offer prayers for me, but rather to see if others have had similar experiences. If so, could you share your story (publically or over IM)?
 
It’s interesting how each person has doubts in different areas. I know a parent of two school-aged children who is very worried to let her kids play with other kids in the neighbourhood, to the point that they have to come to her house or the playdate doesn’t happen. To me, this is sad because I believe kids eventually need to be able to choose their playmates and activities. The whole fun of life is that you can make choices. During Covid, you see how it’s not much fun because our choices are taken from us.

Now imagine God running things as you indicate, intervening. He would have to intervene an awful lot. There would be no illnesses, but also no opportunity for people to help each other out by bringing chicken soup over. There would be no moments of grief; cars in accidents would right themselves, or at the very least, all passengers in them would overcome every accident. In fact, I can’t imagine wanting to be in the world you imply. It would be a stage and we would be the players, but we wouldn’t have any real choices.
 
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d.stephenson said:
rather to see if others have had similar experiences.
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I honestly have never had doubts that are anything like yours.
It’s not because I’ve never experienced suffering or don’t think it’s awful when it happens to me or to others, rather it’s because that just seems to be part of the experience in this very temporary world and the theological discussions of it make a lot of sense to me.
Also, God gives people different crosses. In my case I think he gave me crosses other than doubt.
Some people get the doubt cross.

I doubted God very much for 3 days once over a personal matter where I felt Church teaching was at odds with love and common sense. At the end of 3 days my doubt was resolved. It’s been a few decades and I have not been concerned about it since.

Doubt to me is a spiritual attack. Some people are vulnerable to certain doubts and that’s where Satan hits them. As Lara said, each person has doubts in different areas (Mine was nothing like yours). If one feeds their doubts, for example by turning to the wrong sources as you seem to have done, they will grow into big doubts.

If you really want to get rid of your doubts, pray to God to help you struggle with them and keep struggling. If on the other hand, you’re just planning to give up and walk away, that’s your choice, I hope one day you get over it and come back.
 
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d.stephenson said:
I have been experiencing intense doubt about God’s existence for a while, but especially since COVID began. This is a strange feeling for me because I love attending Mass, Confession, and I pray the Divine Office daily…

I’m not looking for people to offer prayers for me, but rather to see if others have had similar experiences. If so, could you share your story (publically or over IM)?
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I’m afraid not really (maybe others can chime in who can relate more closely to your particular experience). I don’t even share the part of your experience where you pray the Divine Office daily (that’d be too much, for me, right now! I know my limits).

In my case God gave me direct (private) revelation of His existence at a young age, in such a way that I could never afterwards doubt His existence. I don’t think it’s possible for me, individually, to seriously doubt God’s existence.

That said, certainly I’ve known years of doubt and struggle in terms of seeking out details about this God who exists, and learning to trust that God revealed Himself in a special way in and through Jesus and the Catholic Church.

When doubts come to me, they come in the form of doubts about Catholicism specifically — not about God Himself.

And as of yet, since I laid every foundation stone of my conversion to Catholicism very carefully and sincerely, I have significant confidence that I became Catholic for good reasons, not bad reasons, and those reasons continue to hold. Absolutely there’s bad weather that ‘shakes’ this house — but so far the house hasn’t fallen down. It does seem to be built on the rock. Certain shingles might fall away but that only reveals to me that they aren’t a necessary part of the house. The house itself has given me no valid reason to doubt it since I’ve joined. If anything, the bad weather is helping me learn and appreciate how strong and stable the house really is.

Members sin and err, and I’m a fallible human too, and doubts do come. But when I sincerely examine them head-on, the doubts don’t justify me leaving. There’s so far always sufficient evidence and persuasion on the other side that yes, Catholicism is true, and it would be blindly following my doubt (rather than confronting my doubt head-on) that would lead me to error.
 
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There re many common threads within Scripture, and one of the very significant ones is the issue of evil and suffering in the world. In fact, it starts in the first book of Scripture.

For whatever it is worth, one might read Isiah chapter 55.

Certainly not all, but much of the suffering and evil we bring on ourselves - and others. We want it to cease; we want a world in which suffering does not exist (ask anyone who has children and seen them suffer), but God has never promised that in this life.

And ultimately, as we must suffer, we need to reflect not so much on the “why?”, but rather what we shall do in response to the suffering - our own or others.
 
There are different conceptions of God. If your present conception or image is not working for you, what would? What must God be like to fit your experience of reality. Or, if there is no God what else gives your life meaning and purpose? What must you do to be healthy and happy?
 
Suffering and trials are a part of this life. What God allows can turn into good for us if we accept it with prayer and trust. Many times it is a battle to do just that. Looking at Our Lord Jesus Christ and His sufferings can help very much. The sacraments were given to us to fill our needs of His grace. He desires to sanctify us and that is how it is done!

Our lives on this planet are short…eternity is forever!
 
Well, you can check my thread history. The first thread I wrote was coming to terms with the concept of Hell. The short end of it, is although I had been a devout Catholic all my life it took until a year, maybe two now, to accept there was a Hell.

When I did accept there was a Hell, I literally cried and prayed for a few nights grieving for the sinner. Again, I am not certain what goes on in Hell except for the absence of God and the continued presence of the Devil until the last day. Again, all I could do is pray with pleading and gratitude that my sin debt is small and that I love God. I can only hope and pray to be saved.

I found the writings of Paul to be very comforting during these moments, especially his statement in Ephesians we can only be saved by God’s grace alone. I felt a stronger bond with other Christian denominations that we are part of an Elect that is saved from either death or torment. I reread the New Testament, and came to terms that while many may be saved, there are many who are not saved.

Again, it is a myth of history and sociology that man was any more or less religious than now. It’s inaccurate to believe that at one time most of man was Faithful, the progressed into a refined atheism where the, “smart more evolved,” people don’t believe in God. No. The Earth and contemporary times might have changed technologically but fundamentally we are the same people. In other words, Atheists have always been with us and only a certain portion of society has been religious.
 
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I can write more but reply. I think what you are doing is grieving for the sinner and falling into what I call the human progress fallacy. I know all those who enter God’s kingdom are elect and there are many, but I know from the times of Christ there are many who reject God and do so with full cognizance and free will. Bringing much suffering in the world in the process.

Again, I can go further but do you get my gist?
 
d.stephenson

I recommend you do an internet search for WOF 132: Why Does God Allow Evil and Suffering?, June 17, 2018 - Bishop Robert Barron.
 
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d.stephenson said:
One the one hand, I feel a sense of loss. I will miss my priests, attending Mass, the sense of community, etc. On the other hand, I find my new thoughts far more convincing than what I used to believe.
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One additional thought; something I read some years ago. In this world we have a choice, we can suffer with Christ or without him.
I know you’re not looking for prayers to be offered on your behalf, but I feel confident that will happen anyway.
 
Sometimes I doubt all the images and theology we have constructed around God. Sometimes it all seems imaginary, made up. I have a solid belief in God but my experience in pray is one of silent stillness. I must conclude that Hod is there in that transcending all images and theology.
 
In my youthful experiences the moral problems - the Ten Commandments - turned into theological doubts, until I decided to fight against sin.

It’s my experience, and as a “fact” it’s unquestionable, but obviously it doesn’t mean that your problem is similar to mine as a youth.

🙂
 
I haven’t had your doubts. I grew up in a non-believing home and God in his mercy gave me a spark of faith.

We are in a spiritual battle on this earth. If you think of the Superbowl, 2 teams are going to battle it out on the field. It benefits the opposing team if you take an injury and are carried off, and more burden is placed on the remaining team members to carry a bigger load. So it is with what’s happening in the world today.

The remedy is to use time to praise God and worship him. Don’t allow yourself to be pulled off the rails. There is a strong force that wishes to do so.

The story of the little boy who brings his few loaves and fish to Christ, and Christ feeds the 5 thousand, is actually our story. It’s ours, today. When you do a morning offering of your day, all the joys and sorrows and sufferings, you are plugged into Christ and can impact the world for good. Let nothing pull that plug. Guard it. Defend it. We have a sword in our hands. St Michael the Archangel, defend us in this day of battle!

God strengthen you today.
 
Hi, OP, I am and have been a Christian all my life and have
been a Catholic since Easter Vigil 2011. I had been prepared
for demonic attack on my turning to the One Holy Catholic
and Apostolic Church, but was unprepared for what actually
happened I lost my wife in 2013 after a lengthy illness and
fell ill myself right after a clear Colonoscopy exam with
bloody diarrhea for two weeks during which I made three
trips to the hospital emergency unit and grew increasingly
suspicious that Someone was and following me.
I had three filling fall out in one month and suspected the
dentist as trying to poison me, in fact my wife had a tooth
extracted by the same dentist and had bloody diarrhea shortly
before succumbing to diabetes II and parkinsons which she
had some time before this.
I ended up in ICU where I was singled out to be killed b/c
I had no children and my only sibling was 2000+ km away.
Moreover throughout my Three month ordeal in which I was
in and out of the hospital ended with a stint in the Mental
Ward of the hospital, NOT ONE person I knew from Church
visited me, where I was almost positive that I was
in purgatory and hell, I thot I wouldn’t make heaven, b/c of
of lack of self control in eating, looking for food as my only
joy. I called myself agnostic, b/c I DIDN’T know if god existed.
Nevertheless, I regained my faith as my health improved( I was
down to 98 lbs) and I started praying.
 
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I am someone who lost her faith many years ago so I have no advice for you here.

I can however comment on the feelings of walking away from the church herself. You don’t need to. You can still attend as, no matter what, you will always be culturally catholic. You wouldn’t be able to participate in Eucharist but you can still enjoy the fellowship, music, rhythm of the liturgy, the bells and smells! It would be up to you and it could cause you to feel like a hypocrite but it needn’t.
 
This is very well said Tuscany. No person I know of doesn’t suffer from some doubt in one way or another, which can cause them anguish, anxiety or pain.

The bearing of our crosses is alleviated by prayer, the sacraments and the support given to us by Christ and family/friends.
 
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This is a great thread! I really relate to you OP, and I’ve been on the crisis of faith roller coaster once or twice since converting to the Church in 2014. I’ve done that too-- reading secular philosophy and deepening my convictions. Thing is I agree wholeheartedly with all of the Church teachings and dogmas on a cerebral level, and am eager to believe them, but in my heart I do not have the gift of faith. Especially when I’m in a rough time emotionally, I find it hard to make myself believe in God and the Church’s teachings. I come from an atheist background and I tend to revert to the ideas I grew up with when I am struggling. I had a bit of an epiphany moment when I realized that maybe my doubts are in fact what’s wrong. Not the Church. It sounds trite, but when that realization really hit me it was astounding. Kind of like I imagine it feels when a character in a movie realizes they’ve been hallucinating or otherwise deluded all along. I mean, there do exist people who really, truly believe things that are objectively wrong, and maybe I’m one of those at my core. So I choose to try to believe what it serves me, and others, to believe. Currently it’s difficult because I prayed for 2 weeks for God to save my unborn baby and He didn’t. And it’s hard to understand how that is “for the best.” How is an innocent baby dying ever “for the best”? I’ve been spending some time with Lamentations chapter 3, specifically on how even when God ignores our requests and everything is awful, He is still good. It’s hard to pray sometimes, but I write to God/Jesus and explain what I’m wrestling with and ask for clarity and healing. I’ve tried abandoning the Church before and it definitely didn’t serve me or anyone. Maybe one day I’ll receive the gift of faith in my heart but for now i just hope to remain as faithful as I can in spite of doubt. My reply is not as elegant or smart as the other posters but this has just been my experience.
 
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Yeah I struggle with extreme doubt in God due to unanswered prayers and a host of other circumstances. It’s getting harder to believe in his supposed ‘justice, mercy and love’.
 
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Spending prayer time meditating on the sufferings of Jesus, and offering up our sufferings in union with Him helps a lot!
 
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