Experience of 'Extraordinary' Rite

[VincentO]

Hello everyone

I just wanted to share my experience with you. I have attended the ‘Extraordinary’ rite mass a number of times over the last few years.

I was initially drawn to the rite because my Grandmother used to tell me about it and she was a very spiritual person. About 5 years ago I attended an SSPX chapel - the only one in our area that was using the rite at that time. It really put me off - the mass was celebrated beautifully but the sermon was very negative - including slating the Pauline Mass, the one which I grew up with and which I believe can be very beautiful if celebrated correctly.

My second experience was at the local Mass celebrated by the FSSP - it was a good experience but something didn’t click. At that time there was a ‘properly’ celebrated NO Mass just up the road from me which I found to be an intensely spiritual experience.

Since then, the Mass at my local parish has declined. The awful 70s and 80s hymns have taken over and one of the priests makes every Mass into ‘his show’. At a baptism last week he was practically encouraging the congregation to shout responses in a game show style. He takes every opportunity to make each homily about him and the difficulties of his life. At one point I had to walk out of after he made a joke about how his colleague, the parish priest, is very good with children but ‘isn’t a paedophile’.

I’m rambling a bit.

Anyway, it saddens me to say that I have not been attended mass for several months because I found what I was seeing quite painful.

I was drawn, therefore, to something more traditional and today I went back to the FSSP Mass. It was a Missa Cantata (I think) and for the first time in a long time I felt at engaged in what was going on and very much at peace. I didn’t manage to follow everything that was going on but I think that would come in time.

Anyway, I still feel a bit odd about the whole thing? Should I continue with the TLM or should I be attempting to tackle what I perceive to be the abuses of the liturgy at my local parish? Should I wait to see whether they introduce a traditional mass? (Although I think the facilities may make it impossible).

I’m not sure what the right thing to do is?

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Hello everyone

My second experience was at the local Mass celebrated by the FSSP - it was a good experience but something didn’t click. At that time there was a ‘properly’ celebrated NO Mass just up the road from me which I found to be an intensely spiritual experience.

Since then, the Mass at my local parish has declined. The awful 70s and 80s hymns have taken over and one of the priests makes every Mass into ‘his show’. At a baptism last week he was practically encouraging the congregation to shout responses in a game show style. He takes every opportunity to make each homily about him and the difficulties of his life. At one point I had to walk out of after he made a joke about how his colleague, the parish priest, is very good with children but ‘isn’t a paedophile’.

I’m not sure what the right thing to do is?

We don’t choose our parish priests, though we may choose spiritual advisors and confessors.
I think that is a good rule. It has advantages and disadvantages, and one of the disadvantages is that sometimes the priest is less humble than he might be. However you are stuck with the man the bishop sends.
The important thing to remember is that you are the learner and he is the teacher. It doesn’t mean that he is always right and you are always wrong, and it doesn’t mean that you must always show passive agreement, but it does define your social roles.

However it isn’t easy when you’ve got an arrogant and headstrong priest whose ideas you basically don’t agree with. Remember that a priest who simply doesn’t care is a lot worse, and that no priest at all, which might be the situation soon in many parishes, is orders of magnitude worse still. Really you’ve just got to endure. Mass isn’t the place for making political points, even if the point being made is correct.

 

[VincentO]

Really you’ve just got to endure. Mass isn’t the place for making political points, even if the point being made is correct.

Thanks for your reply - my problem is that if I go to Mass celebrated by this chap, then I don’t even feel like I’ve been at all.

There are several parishes in my area, all of which are within 20-30 minutes walk from my house. One of these is the FSSP parish which celebrates the TLM.

I suppose my issue is - do I have a choice at all? I believe I have found a mass which is being celebrated in a way which engages me like my local parish used to. I go to my local parish and I get angry. I feel disappointed when I see this priest (and he’s not the parish priest) appear from the sacristy. I just want to leave. It’s a horrible feeling.

And I am attracted by the mystery and reverence of the TLM.

So what do I do?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

You CAN attend both, turn and turn about.

We’ve had a lot of bad luck with priests just lately, the last two years. It’s ranged from grave financial improprieties (ironically, this one was orthodox and offered the Mass reverently), to criminal assault (this one went on the lam before he was captured and his trial begins in January, you may have seen it on the national news). We’ve had supply priests who’ve run the gamit from the orthodox to the very questionable.

When I asked one of our supply priests about liturgical irregularities in which he was engaging, he said perhaps I should go somewhere where I would be “fed.” Mind you, I’ve been a member of this parish for years and he’s a fill-in. That’s when I grimly resolved that this was my parish and I wasn’t going anywhere. My motto is now, “Never threaten to leave, threaten to stay.”

When you attend your parish and there are abuses, make reparation for the hurt done our Lord.

 

[Ave_Maria_1]

Ave Maria!

I understand perfectly what you are experiencing. I know the feelings to be so upset at what happens at Mass that I hae had it happen that I could not even go to Holy Communion. I left my long time parish 3 years ago when the new pastor came. The fist bad sign was that he did not like to offer Mass for his people every day but paid other priests to do his job. And then it became obvious that he dislikes the sacrament of confession too. He will not meet with people and dissolved all committees. He does like vacations and is gone about 2 or more weeks a month. I have no idea what he does but he is gone a lot. He is preparing to go out of the country for a long time now. He built a new rectory and drives a 40G vehicle. I was so appalled that I had to have my distance.

Yes, we have the terrible songs. We started Mass this morning with ‘we come to tell our story’–yeah, thats why we come to Mass, er, liturgy to assemble the community and tell our story.
Baloney! I do not sing. But reading from my old missal which has the Latin Mass has really given me great comfort. I have had to endure much but then it was no picnic at Calvary.

You have a choice-you can go to the FSSP which is fully lawful. And the SSPX may soon be fully reunited. Or you can suffer for Our Lord at the poorly offered Novus Ordo.

One thing is not really a good choice and that is to skip Mass. Mortal Sin! Avoid that! Stay in a state of grace at all costs and no matter what you must endure. You may have something to suffer and endure for Our Lord but if you can look at it that way, it is a grace.

 

[freudmacher]

Oh man do I feel for you. I have mentioned many times on this blog what I am about to say again, so sorry in advance.

I had to settle on the ‘lesser’ abuses church in this diocese. Every weekend I would go to another church here in town trying to find just one that did it according to the church. Finally I found the one that had the least abuses and stayed. Then I found a sedevacanist church and started going there. But I realized what I was doing, for a number of reasons, and had to go back to the NO church. (My priest is going to take lessons and offer the TLM as soon as he can, thanks to Benedict XVI)

I see it as you are very lucky to have a church approved TLM to go to. I wish so much that I did. You do have a choice. But please remember nothing is going to change unless we as the lay people demand it. As most of us know, talking to the Bishop doesn’t help most of the time and we cant walk up to the Popes office and demand change, so what are we to do? The only thing I can see is attending a church approved TLM. When the Bishops see this is what we want, a true mass according to the church, will they realize this stuff has to stop. When I say ‘true mass’ I am not referring to the just the TLM, but rather either of the ordinary or extraordinary, just done according to the rubics. You might see it as me as one person doesn’t make a difference, but you added to me (discerning the priesthood, but only a traditional order) and to everyone else, it does add a lot.

 

[NoPlaceLikeRome]

Malcolm, it is true that we don’t “choose our parish priest” in the sense that we can’t change who is the pastor of the nearest parish, but we CAN choose to belong to *any *parish, regardless of geographical distance, according to the current Code of Canon Law; at least, I have heard that several times.

Vincent, if I were you I would go to the TLM or to whatever reverent church I could walk to. At my college the Masses are sometimes very liberal, “on this Rock I will build My church community,” “Almighty One” for “Almighty Father” &c, and I endured it for a while, but I have stopped going to those Mass times. (I do not skip Mass. There are other churches nearby.) Even though Holy Mass is ever a font of graces, I often find myself uncharitable and not well-disposed when it is not reverently said.
Others may, however, be blessed with more patience.

 

[paramedicgirl]

For the OP; here’s some Canon law quotes that tell you what your rights are as a Catholic. This may help you decide what to do. Me, i would just go the FSSP Mass, since that’s the one that feeds you spiritually. Why jeopardize your salvation by toughing it out at a Mass that leaves you wanting?

§2 Christ’s faithful are at liberty to make known their needs, especially their spiritual needs, and their wishes to the Pastors of the Church.

§3 They have the right, indeed at times the duty, in keeping with their knowledge, competence and position, to manifest to the sacred Pastors their views on matters which concern the good of the Church. They have the right also to make their views known to others of Christ’s faithful, but in doing so they must always respect the integrity of faith and morals, show due reverence to the Pastors and take into account both the common good and the dignity of individuals.

Can. 213 Christ’s faithful have the right to be assisted by their Pastors from the spiritual riches of the Church, especially by the word of God and the sacraments.

Can. 214 Christ’s faithful have the right to worship God according to the provisions of their own rite approved by the lawful Pastors of the Church; they also have the right to follow their own form of spiritual life, provided it is in accord with Church teaching.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

Ave Maria!
Yes, we have the terrible songs. We started Mass this morning with ‘we come to tell our story’–yeah, thats why we come to Mass, er, liturgy to assemble the community and tell our story.
Baloney! I do not sing. But reading from my old missal which has the Latin Mass has really given me great comfort. I have had to endure much but then it was no picnic at Calvary.

Actually, that IS why we come. We tell our story. Handed down through the ages by scripture, tradition, the story telling goes on. In the general intercessions and the Eucharistic prayer, the story telling continues: we tell of good and bad times, times of trial and times the Lord was with us. We tell of loved ones gone before us, marked with the sign of faith; we tell the story of human history, a story of sin, redemption, the power of the cross, and the power of resurrection.

And to think: you miss all of it because you are buried in your latin missal and not having COMMUNION with everyone else or experiencing the REAL PRESENCE manifest in the assembly (one of the three forms of Real Presence found in the Mass).

 

[AlexV]

Actually, your post, “Peace joy love”, is full of inaccuracies and prejudice against the extraordinary usage of our Rite.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Actually, that IS why we come. We tell our story. Handed down through the ages by scripture, tradition, the story telling goes on. In the general intercessions and the Eucharistic prayer, the story telling continues: we tell of good and bad times, times of trial and times the Lord was with us. We tell of loved ones gone before us, marked with the sign of faith; we tell the story of human history, a story of sin, redemption, the power of the cross, and the power of resurrection.

And to think: you miss all of it because you are buried in your latin missal and not having COMMUNION with everyone else or experiencing the REAL PRESENCE manifest in the assembly (one of the three forms of Real Presence found in the Mass).

You go to Mass to tell YOUR story? Isn’t it about God and not you, though? The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass isn’t about US, even though we do come together to worship God as a Catholic Community united in prayer. Sorry, but I don’t buy into your logic about the Mass being about US. You make it sound like we are our own little gods.

 

[Unitas]

Actually, that IS why we come. We tell our story. Handed down through the ages by scripture, tradition, the story telling goes on. In the general intercessions and the Eucharistic prayer, the story telling continues: we tell of good and bad times, times of trial and times the Lord was with us. We tell of loved ones gone before us, marked with the sign of faith; we tell the story of human history, a story of sin, redemption, the power of the cross, and the power of resurrection.

And to think: you miss all of it because you are buried in your latin missal and not having COMMUNION with everyone else or experiencing the REAL PRESENCE manifest in the assembly (one of the three forms of Real Presence found in the Mass).

Can Christ only be trully present if there’s an assembly? Is the True Presence somehow less if there is no assembly present?

We go to mass to worship God, not to “tell our story”. We have the rest of the week to talk about ourselves.

This is the typical liberal primacy-of-community theology that needs to be abolished.

“community” and “active participation” (which is actually a mistranslation of “actual” participation) have become a false god to some, turning the Holy Sacrifice of the mass into the Holy Fellowship of the Mass.

 

[Conciliar]

Actually, that IS why we come. We tell our story. Handed down through the ages by scripture, tradition, the story telling goes on. In the general intercessions and the Eucharistic prayer, the story telling continues: we tell of good and bad times, times of trial and times the Lord was with us. We tell of loved ones gone before us, marked with the sign of faith; we tell the story of human history, a story of sin, redemption, the power of the cross, and the power of resurrection.

And to think: you miss all of it because you are buried in your latin missal and not having COMMUNION with everyone else or experiencing the REAL PRESENCE manifest in the assembly (one of the three forms of Real Presence found in the Mass).

Mass is story time. Even for you that’s grand!

Paix, I would say that you have the kind of theological insight and knowledge of the Real Presence that one might expect from the parish organ player, but I wouldn’t want to insult the rest of the world’s organists.

You have literally presented yourself as a liturgist on these boards, when the pathetic truth is you’re the parish organ player who just happened to take a 1 week seminar in liturgy! For those who are confsed by this statement - check out Paix’s intro thread and her most recent diatribes in this forum.

My guess is now that people here are on to you and know you’re just a poser, (as though your “insights” weren’t a dead give away) you probably won’t be back. Shame too. I’d love to see you defend your resume.

 

[Caesar]

I can understand where your coming from Vincent.

Except for one Sunday a month, I attend the Novus Ordo at the Cathedral here. Generally Sunday Mass is pretty much average- the same Haugen and Haas music for every Mass, bland homilies (not really unorthodox, but uinspiring and boring), and an abundance of Eucharistic ministers (apparently this is to “speed things up”- at larger Masses some of the EMHCs will go to the back of the nave for that purpose). Occaisionaly the Rector might tweak the wording of some of the prayers or bless us “In the name of the Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier”, but nothing too serious (at least for my region). I no longer recieve Communion at the Cathedral because the priest would let me recieve on the tongue (he only does that for the old folks who wont have it any other way). There is no longer a crucifix in the sanctuary and the Tabernacle has been banished to a corner, but other then that the Cathedral is still a beautiful neo-gothic church.

I used to attend a parish when I was younger (where I was an Altar server) which had a round church (ok fine, an octagon- but still…) from the 1970s. There the pews sloped downward in a semi-circle towards the Altar, with the hymns projected onto the rear wall. Haugen and Hass were common there too, as were compositions from the parish music director herself (which, looking back now, could be called heretical in some respects). Common instruments were rain sticks, tamborines, guitars and one of those electronic toaster organs. At Christmas and Easter there were guest musicians, dancers and even once some small fireworks.

Now I attend the Cathedral out of necessity, only going to the TLM once a month as that is the only time it is offered in my city by the FSSP (outside of a sedevacantist church- I wouldnt go near them with a 352 ft pole). The Traditional Mass has changed my life, and I find it to be a deeply spiritual experience.

 

[Conciliar]

Mass in my parish today? (Which incidentally, is usually fairly reverent.)

The Responsorial Psalm was brought up to date by replacing “he” for God, as is often done here.

Mid Mass, there was a role call of couples celebrating an anniversary in August so they could stand and receive a blessing; not just any blessing, but the really special kind where the whole congragation was asked to extend their hands.

Of course, this was followed by a rousing round of applause.

The Communion song was a stirring rendition of We Are the Body of Christ, by Haas, I believe.

Yet, I do recognize, especially afeter reading Caesar’s post, it could be worse. Heck, we might even let our organist “do liturgy.”

Long story short, I’m looking forward to the extraordinary rite becoming more widely available.

 

[elzoro]

Hello everyone

I was initially drawn to the rite because my Grandmother used to tell me about it and she was a very spiritual person. About 5 years ago I attended an SSPX chapel - the only one in our area that was using the rite at that time. It really put me off - the mass was celebrated beautifully but the sermon was very negative - including slating the Pauline Mass, the one which I grew up with and which I believe can be very beautiful if celebrated correctly.

 

[elzoro]

What does “celebrated properly”

 

[elzoro]

I meanty “celebrated correctly”. what does that mean? Can I have examples please??

 

[DustinsDad]

Actually, that IS why we come. We tell our story. …

The purpose of the Mass is the same as the purpose of the Cross - since it is one and the same sacrifice:

1st. To honor and glorify God;
2nd. To thank Him for all the graces bestowed on the whole world;
3rd. To satisfy God’s justice for the sins of men;
4th. To petition for and obtain all graces and blessings.
DustinsDad

 

[KathleenElsie]

Mass in my parish today? (Which incidentally, is usually fairly reverent.)

The Responsorial Psalm was brought up to date by replacing “he” for God, as is often done here.

Mid Mass, there was a role call of couples celebrating an anniversary in August so they could stand and receive a blessing; not just any blessing, but the really special kind where the whole congregation was asked to extend their hands.

Of course, this was followed by a rousing round of applause.

The Communion song was a stirring rendition of We Are the Body of Christ, by Haas, I believe.

Yet, I do recognize, especially after reading Caesar’s post, it could be worse. Heck, we might even let our organist “do liturgy.”

Long story short, I’m looking forward to the extraordinary rite becoming more widely available.

Same here today. I refuse to extend my hand in blessing and the clapping makes me want to scream. I think it is wonderful that the couple in our church was married for 50 years. The two front pews were “reserved” for their family members. Yes,they are an example to the youth of today. But, interrupting Mass to ask “everyone” to bless them and clapping for them just turned me off.