Explaining Mary to Protestants

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I’m involved in a discussion on the Holy Rosary that has brought up the Salve Regina as an example of a prayer that is…Heretical I suppose (I’m typing this and it just seems bonkers to me). I am trying to explain how wonderful an addition to a faith in Christ he addition of a powerful intercessor like Our Lady is, and how her merits win graces for our souls. I wondered if any experienced apologists here could address specific allegations aimed at the Salve, for example:
  • Mary is not the " hope" of a christian Jesus is.
  • No scripture says pray to or cry to Mary…NONE
  • Mary is called an advocate in the rosary while scripture says there IS ONE advocate, which is Jesus.
  • Mary can bestow mercy on no one. Mercy comes from her som Jesus by his death on the cross.
Thanks in advance, and God bless!

Mark+ 🙂
 
I am no great apologetic, but Jesus with his full humanity must listen to his mother.

Hopefully, you get better responses.
 
I’m involved in a discussion on the Holy Rosary that has brought up the Salve Regina as an example of a prayer that is…Heretical I suppose (I’m typing this and it just seems bonkers to me). I am trying to explain how wonderful an addition to a faith in Christ he addition of a powerful intercessor like Our Lady is, and how her merits win graces for our souls. I wondered if any experienced apologists here could address specific allegations aimed at the Salve, for example:
  • Mary is not the " hope" of a christian Jesus is.
  • No scripture says pray to or cry to Mary…NONE
  • Mary is called an advocate in the rosary while scripture says there IS ONE advocate, which is Jesus.
  • Mary can bestow mercy on no one. Mercy comes from her som Jesus by his death on the cross.
Thanks in advance, and God bless!

Mark+ 🙂
COLOR=“Blue”]*What Catholic Believe about the Blessed Virgin May

And Why…

Both Catholics and informed Protestants believe that “the bible is the inspired word of God.” This does not mean “dictated by God,” rather it means that God through the Holy Spirit, made known to the authors through inspiration what He God, wanted to topically relate, and then He gives the Divine Merits of His Son Jesus to Guarantee, that the bible is “The Truth,” just as Jesus Himself is “The Way (singular), The Truth (singular), and the Life, (singular.)

2nd. Timothy, Chapter 3: 16 “All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

“Something wonderful is happening. Many of our Evangelical brothers and sisters are beginning to appreciate the ancient Catholic teaching that Sacred Scripture is the written portion, not the totality, of Sacred Tradition given to us by the apostles with the authority of Christ himself. Increasingly, they are beginning to grasp the idea that, though Scripture is sufficient (as Paul says in 2 Timothy 3:16), there is a distinction between material and formal sufficiency.

What’s the difference between material and formal sufficiency? It is the difference between having a big enough pile of bricks to build a house and having a house of bricks. Catholic teaching says written Sacred Tradition (known as Scripture) is materially sufficient: all the bricks necessary to build its doctrines are there in Scripture. But because some things in Scripture are implicit rather than explicit, other stuff besides Scripture has been handed down from the apostles. This other stuff is unwritten Sacred Tradition (which is the mortar that holds the bricks of the written Tradition together in the right order and position) and the Magisterium or teaching authority of the Church (which is the trowel in the hand of the Master Builder). Taken together, these three things are formally sufficient for knowing the revealed truth of God.”

#1 Catholics believe that Mary “is The Mother of God.” A Dogma in 431 AD

#2 Catholics believe and hold that like Jesus, Mary was “conceived without any sin, and remained sinless her entire time on earth.” No, Catholics do not believe that Mary is a god, or someone, somehow, equivalent to God. A Dogma in 1854

#3 Catholics believe and hold that Mary was a Virgin before She Conceived Jesus, remained a Virgin after giving Birth to Jesus, and indeed remained always a Virgin. A Dogma in 649 AD.MAry HAD TO BE PERFECTED as God is PERFECT inorder to be the Mother of a Perfect Jesus.;

#1 Mary as “Mother of God”

Luke Chapter One: “26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!” … 35 And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born * will be called holy, the Son of God. “

Notice the final statement: He will be called the Son of God.” Why? Because Jesus is God!

Mary gave birth to Jesus; therefore, Mary is the Mother of Jesus. Jesus is God. Therefore Mary is, has to be the “Mother of God.”

Sacred Tradition holds that very aged parents conceived Mary. Her birth was a clear and direct intervention from Almighty God, similar to the pregnancy of Abraham’s wife Sarah. As a Consequence, and in thanksgiving for “this special blessing,”(it was considered a “curse from God for married couple not to have children, especially the wife.) Mary at an early age she was presented in the temple and her parents dedicated her to God, which explains how she became an educated woman, with great knowledge of the Law, and the Torah, which was very unusual at the time. She was raised in the Temple as a “Dedicated Virgin” and took vows to that effect.*

see next post
 
PART II

Mary was conceived as was Jesus, without any sin; including the sin of our first parents, Adam and Eve, which is called ‘Original Sin.” Mary was (is) “ever-virgin.” These are facts. The question to be asked is why?

Many is venerated and held in high esteem by Catholics, not only because of who she Is, the Mother of God, but just as importantly for what she is.

She is also the most perfect example of how one is to live this limited life on earth, in close relationship with God. Mary lived her life with the fullest and most complete manifestations of Faith, Hope, and Love.

Mary’s God given gifts of sinlessness (no Original sin) and perpetual Virgin, are God’s reward to Mary for her unshakable faith, and for accepting FULLY every grace God ever offered her, and applying these graces correctly. As a result of this singular accomplishment, Mary applying her “free-will” was able to avoid all sin throughout her entire life on earth. Mary is the only member of God’s human creations to accomplish this task. God found Mary worthy to be the Mother of His son, because she was His only (solely) perfect human being.

Yahweh God directing Moses on how exactly to build “The Ark of The Covenant.”

Exodus Chapter 25: “10 "They shall make an ark of acacia wood; two cubits and a half shall be its length, a cubit and a half its breadth, and a cubit and a half its height. 11 And you shall overlay it with pure gold, within and without shall you overlay it, and you shall make upon it a molding of gold round about. 12 And you shall cast four rings of gold for it and put them on its four feet, two rings on the one side of it, and two rings on the other side of it. 13 You shall make poles of acacia wood, and overlay them with gold.
**
Immaculate Conception: Of Mary.**

In 1854, Pope Pius IX’s solemn declaration, Ineffabilis Deus, clarified with finality the long-held belief of the Church that Mary was conceived free from original sin. In proclaiming the Immaculate Conception of Mary as a dogma of the Church, the pope expressed precisely and clearly that Mary was conceived free from the stain of original sin. This privilege of Mary derives from God’s having chosen her as Mother of the Savior; thus she received the benefits of salvation in Christ from the very moment of her conception.

4 Mary Assumed into heaven Body and Soul.

Catechism of the** RCC # 966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death." The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:
**
2nd. Kings Chapter 2: “9
when they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, “Ask what I shall do for you, before I am taken from you.” And Elisha said, “I pray you, let me inherit a double share of your spirit.” 10 And he said, “You have asked a hard thing; yet, if you see me as I am being taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if you do not see me, it shall not be so.” 11 And as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
**
Genesis Chapter 5:21”** When Enoch had lived sixty-five years, he became the father of Methuselah. 22 Enoch walked with God after the birth of Methuselah three hundred years, and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24 Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.

3 Historians know where Jesus and Mary lived, where “the Upper Room was,” where Peter and Paul are buried, where Christ was Crucified, were the Apostle John lived (with Mary the Mother of Jesus.” They have found the tombs of all of the Apostles, BUT not the tomb of Mary! Why? Because Mary had no tomb as she too was “assumed into Heaven.”​

4 As God’s most perfect creature, and the Mother of His Only Son, logic allows and even encourages such a conclusion. If God would do this for a few of His Prophets, surely, He would do it for the Mother of God.​

5 Jesus Rose from The Dead Incorruptible, and as yet another miracle, blesses His Mother with bodily incorruptibility. One who is sinless need not endure corruptibility.​

6 Further evidence of this can be know and understood by us as we too, at the Second Judgement, we too will be raised, our bodies made perfect, and remain incorruptible.​

7 Note: By promulgating the Bull Munificentissimus Deus, 1 November, 1950, Pope Pius XII declared infallibly that the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary was a dogma of the Catholic Faith. Likewise, the Second Vatican Council taught in the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium that “the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, when her earthly life was over, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things (n. 59).”​

Mary’s role is singular: She is Mother of God, benefactor, and intercessor par excellence.

Having said “yes” to become the Mother of God, Mary now agrees to become our mother too, despite the fact that our sins caused her son’s death on the Cross. She assumes these roles as requested by God, and as our mother cherishes them, and eagerly waits for us to as, “mom can I, mom will you?”

Someone said we do not pray prayers of adoration to The Blessed Mother and that is not exactly true. Adoration is an intense love as we adore our children. The form of prayer that is reserved only for God is Worship. Different word same intent.
 
Our Blessed Mother is the Mother of all believers in her Son. I know Protestants who love Mother Mary. I know a Baptist pastor who prays the Rosary and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy and goes to Eucharistic Adoration.

Personally, I would not enter a debate with anyone about our Mother. Pray that he/she received the needed grace. How can we argue someone into loving another? We cannot do it. Let’s show our Protestant brothers and sisters that our Mother is real and loves us all.
 
I’m a little more straightforward.

From Blessed Mother Teresa: “No Mary, No Jesus.”

Kind of sums it up, doesn’t it? If she hadn’t said “yes,” where would we be?

I agree that there is no use arguing about this with someone. Really–how can you NOT love, admire, and have the deepest respect for someone who went through what Mother Mary endured, without wavering in her total love of and faith in her Son?

As Fr. Trujillio put it at a recent conference, what son doesn’t listen to his mother? (maybe not his exact words, but that’s the sense of what he said)
 
A good overview but a couple of phrasings that are of concern:
Mary was conceived as was Jesus, without any sin; including the sin of our first parents, Adam and Eve, which is called ‘Original Sin.”
Mary’s conception was completely different from that of Jesus. Mary was conceived by two human parents just as every one of us was. At the moment of her conception, God preserved her from Original Sin - she was in effect “baptised” from the very beginning of her life - that’s why the Church says she was “perfected.”

Jesus was conceived miraculously in the womb of Mary by the action of the Holy Spirit.

He is unique - the God-Man. She is what we are all called to be: perfected by God, as you said:
She is also the most perfect example of how one is to live this limited life on earth, in close relationship with God. Mary lived her life with the fullest and most complete manifestations of Faith, Hope, and Love.
Mary’s God given gifts of sinlessness (no Original sin) and perpetual Virgin, are God’s reward to Mary for her unshakable faith, and for accepting FULLY every grace God ever offered her, and applying these graces correctly. As a result of this singular accomplishment, Mary applying her “free-will” was able to avoid all sin throughout her entire life on earth. Mary is the only member of God’s human creations to accomplish this task. God found Mary worthy to be the Mother of His son, because she was His only (solely) perfect human being.
The other statement that concerns me is this one, possibly I am just misunderstanding:
Someone said we do not pray prayers of adoration to The Blessed Mother and that is not exactly true. Adoration is an intense love as we adore our children. The form of prayer that is reserved only for God is Worship. Different word same intent.
It is precisely our intent that is different when we direct our prayers to Mary (or any of the saints) than to God. All prayers to saints invoke their intercession. When we pray to God, even prayers of petition, we are not asking Him to pray for us, obviously, we are asking Him for graces. When we pray to Mary or any of the saints we never ascribe to them the attributes of God, and we never worship any creature, only the Creator.

I know you know this and I’m just concerned that the phrasing of the post could be misunderstood.

The Catholic Encyclopedia does a good job of detailing this difference:
Adoration: In the strict sense, an act of religion offered to God in acknowledgment of His supreme perfection and dominion, and of the creature’s dependence upon Him; in a looser sense, the reverence shown to any person or object possessing, inherently or by association, a sacred character or a high degree of moral excellence.
and
Thus far we have spoken of the worship given directly to God as the infinitely perfect Being. It is clear that adoration in this sense can be offered to no finite object. Still, the impulse that leads us to worship God’s perfection in itself will move us also to venerate the traces and bestowals of that perfection as it appears conspicuously in saintly men and women. Even to inanimate objects, which for one reason or another strikingly recall the excellence, majesty, love, or mercy of God, we naturally pay some measure of reverence. The goodness which these creatures possess by participation or association is a reflection of God’s goodness; by honouring them in the proper way we offer tribute to the Giver of all good. He is the ultimate end of our worship in such cases as He is the source of the derived perfection which called it forth. But, as was intimated above, whenever the immediate object of our veneration is a creature of this sort, the mode of worship which we exhibit towards it is fundamentally different from the worship which belongs to God alone.
 
“No Mary, No Jesus” is a statement that requires a little unpacking. Can a Protestant “know” Jesus without devotion to Mary? Obviously, this is possible.

I wonder, “what role does our Mother play in non-Catholics coming to her Son?”

Could it be that she prays for us all to come to faith in Jesus Christ?

Please respond
 
“No Mary, No Jesus” is a statement that requires a little unpacking. Can a Protestant “know” Jesus without devotion to Mary? Obviously, this is possible.

I wonder, “what role does our Mother play in non-Catholics coming to her Son?”

Could it be that she prays for us all to come to faith in Jesus Christ?

Please respond
I am not a well-trained in matters of religion but here is an example of what the Blessed Mother does for non-catholics and in this case non-christians as well.
catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=17679
 
Mama Mary is alive and kicking. She is the who brings us colser to christ. Without her i think i wouldnt be following christ. She is the gateway to our salvation because she leads us to Jesus our lord and savior.

I LOVE YOU BLESSED VIRGIN MARY,QUEEN OF HEAVEN,EARTH AND THE ANGELS. PLEASE PRAY FOR US SINNERS NOW AND AT THE HOUR OF OUR DEATH. AMEN!!!

If the world hates you remember that it hated me first,no severant is greater than its master,if they persecuted me(Jesus) they will persecute you.
 
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