Explaining Original Sin

[Sonny89]

Peace & All Good!!

A colleague of mine recently asked me to explain why Adam’s sin carried over to the rest of humanity since it wasn’t a physical/genetic defect and we each have individual souls, independent of each other & our parents…

As a biologist, he could understand it if it were a physical or genetic defect but since our souls are created independently of each other rather than through any kind of reproduction or passing on from a set of parents, he can’t accept it.

Any help with how to explain it would be much appreciated.

 

[grannymh]

Peace & All Good!!

A colleague of mine recently asked me to explain why Adam’s sin carried over to the rest of humanity since it wasn’t a physical/genetic defect and we each have individual souls, independent of each other & our parents…

As a biologist, he could understand it if it were a physical or genetic defect but since our souls are created independently of each other rather than through any kind of reproduction or passing on from a set of parents, he can’t accept it.

Any help with how to explain it would be much appreciated.

Regarding the transmission of Original Sin. It is a contracted state of human nature which is naturally transmitted from parent to child. This state is basically one deprived of Adam’s Original Holiness and Justice–which Adam lost when he sinned.

Paragraphs 404-405 from the universal Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition.

**404 **How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”.By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state. It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” - a state and not an act.

**405 **Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.

From the CCC Glossary, page 890.

ORIGINAL SIN: The sin by which the first human beings disobeyed the commandment of God, choosing to follow their own will rather than God’s will. As a consequence they lost the grace of original holiness, and became subject to the law of death; sin became universally present in the world. Besides the personal sin of Adam and Eve, original sin describes the fallen state of human nature which affects every person born into the world, and from which Christ, the “new Adam,” came to redeem us (396–412).

 

[tonyrey]

We are affected by the behaviour of our ancestors in many ways, not only biological but also moral, social, economic, political and cultural. Is it fanciful to believe the blood-stained history of our race has had a devastating effect on our attitude to others and ourselves? Do we regard strangers and foreigners as our brothers and sisters or potential enemies? Arthur Koestler believed there is a streak of insanity in mankind without explaining why it exists. The reason is found in the account of the Fall in Genesis which is not to be taken literally but conveys a profound truth about human nature:

1. At some point in history our ancestors recognized the difference between good and evil.
2. They chose evil, perhaps murder, in a society dominated by the law of the jungle.
3. That choice has deeply affected our moral environment.
4. As we are subject to evil influences and tendencies we are the** victims** of original sin through no fault of our own.
5. Even though we are not responsible for all the suffering we cause we are caught up in a vortex of evil which often leads to violent death and vendettas between families.
6. We are not isolated individuals but members of a family who are collectively guilty for the misery and suffering in the world on account of our neglect and indifference.
7. We are not worthy to be in God’s presence because of our moral imperfection.
8. Before Jesus came into the world we were spiritually dead because we were separated from the Source of life.
9. He has liberated us from ignorance and moral weakness by infusing us with His love and giving us the knowledge and strength to overcome temptation.
10. That is why He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Even from a secular point of view there must have been a specific point in time when individuals first recognised the distinction between good and evil. The principle of economy suggests that the moment of moral enlightenment was to one person at one particular time in one particular place. Such a remarkable event is far more momentous than the greatest scientific discoveries because it has enabled us to transcend the law of the jungle and recognise the truth of Christ’s teaching which is the foundation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

 

[thinkandmull]

I think the question here is how can the soul contract original sin while being created directly by God

 

[grannymh]

I think the question here is how can the soul contract original sin while being created directly by God

Our own human nature is an unique unification of decomposing anatomy and rational soul in a single nature. Our parents at our conception did not say “here a half; there a half.” These two CCC paragraphs can help us understand that it is the unity of our human nature which contracts the State of Original Sin. Our soul is deprived of the original State of Holiness and our body is deprived of the original extraordinary gift by which man would not have to suffer or die.

**364 **The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:
Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day.
**365 **The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body: i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.

 

[Sonny89]

Peace and All Good!

Thank you everyone for replying, your answers are much appreciated.

I think the question here is how can the soul contract original sin while being created directly by God

thinkandmull, this is certainly an important part of the topic & I think it’s a part of what my colleague was driving at, since each soul is dependent on God for it’s creation. Independent of any other causes or any normal ways in which characteristics would be passed on-he soul is a gift from God at the moment of conception but doesn’t result from the natural act/process of conception.

The logical conclusion from this perspective would seem to be that God creates the souls with Original Sin, but surely, it it rather that it has to do with our human nature & the precise nature of the union of faculties & constituent parts etc. Perhaps it;S analogous, in a sense to how Christ’s Divine Nature can be said to die as a result of ineffable nature of the hypostatic union with the human nature. Though obviously, we don’t have the 2 natures. In humanity’s case it’s just referring to the unity of different parts of the one nature

So our soul contracts original sin because of the union with our moral nature/common human & psychological makeup shared with our first parents…

 

[Sonny89]

Peace & All Good!

Our own human nature is an unique unification of decomposing anatomy and rational soul in a single nature. Our parents at our conception did not say “here a half; there a half.” These two CCC paragraphs can help us understand that it is the unity of our human nature which contracts the State of Original Sin. Our soul is deprived of the original State of Holiness and our body is deprived of the original extraordinary gift by which man would not have to suffer or die.

**364 **The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:
Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day.
**365 **The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body: i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.

Thanks for this, it looks like you posted as I was writing my post just now. you explain it very well. Thank you

 

[davidv]

Peace and All Good!

Thank you everyone for replying, your answers are much appreciated.

thinkandmull, this is certainly an important part of the topic & I think it’s a part of what my colleague was driving at, since each soul is dependent on God for it’s creation. Independent of any other causes or any normal ways in which characteristics would be passed on-he soul is a gift from God at the moment of conception but doesn’t result from the natural act/process of conception.

It seem to me that these thoughts ignore the very real material cause that the parents contribute to the creation of new humans.

The logical conclusion from this perspective would seem to be that God creates the souls with Original Sin, but surely, it it rather that it has to do with our human nature & the precise nature of the union of faculties & constituent parts etc. Perhaps it;S analogous, in a sense to how Christ’s Divine Nature can be said to die as a result of ineffable nature of the hypostatic union with the human nature. Though obviously, we don’t have the 2 natures. In humanity’s case it’s just referring to the unity of different parts of the one nature

So our soul contracts original sin because of the union with our moral nature/common human & psychological makeup shared with our first parents…

 

[grannymh]

Peace and All Good!

Thank you everyone for replying, your answers are much appreciated.

thinkandmull, this is certainly an important part of the topic & I think it’s a part of what my colleague was driving at, since each soul is dependent on God for it’s creation. Independent of any other causes or any normal ways in which characteristics would be passed on-he soul is a gift from God at the moment of conception but doesn’t result from the natural act/process of conception.

The logical conclusion from this perspective would seem to be that God creates the souls with Original Sin, but surely, it it rather that it has to do with our human nature & the precise nature of the union of faculties & constituent parts etc. Perhaps it;S analogous, in a sense to how Christ’s Divine Nature can be said to die as a result of ineffable nature of the hypostatic union with the human nature.

So our soul contracts original sin because of the union with our moral nature/common human & psychological makeup shared with our first parents…

Re: post 6. Please note that it is an error to imply “Perhaps it;S analogous, in a sense to how Christ’s Divine Nature can be said to die as a result of ineffable nature of the hypostatic union with the human nature.”
Divinity does not die.

The Catholic teachings on the Hypostatic Union, “True God and True Man” are long and intricate. The basic teachings are found in CCC paragraphs 464-483.

Links to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition.

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

 

[Sonny89]

Peace & All Good!

Re: post 6. Please note that it is an error to imply “Perhaps it;S analogous, in a sense to how Christ’s Divine Nature can be said to die as a result of ineffable nature of the hypostatic union with the human nature.”
Divinity does not die.

The Catholic teachings on the Hypostatic Union, “True God and True Man” are long and intricate. The basic teachings are found in CCC paragraphs 464-483.

Links to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition.

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Thanks, I did not mean to imply that the Divine Nature of Christ died, of course that isn’t possible. This part of my post was poorly worded. I was trying to remember something I had read by St Cyril of Alexandria on the relationship between the 2 Natures & the Hypostatic Union. I’ll try & dig out the textbook with the exact quote, I couldn’t find it at the time I wrote the above post & tried, foolishly to describe it in my own words.

Thanks again.

God Bless

 

[mikekle]

I will say, some of these posts have helped me trying to understand original sin, but I still struggle with why Jesus dying on the cross was apparently good enough for every other sin of mankind, BUT not original sin…what would Jesus have to have done differently to have OS included I wonder? If enough people concentrated, put in enough prayers, would this be enough to do away with OS?

 

[Vico]

I will say, some of these posts have helped me trying to understand original sin, but I still struggle with why Jesus dying on the cross was apparently good enough for every other sin of mankind, BUT not original sin…what would Jesus have to have done differently to have OS included I wonder? If enough people concentrated, put in enough prayers, would this be enough to do away with OS?

It is the teaching from the Apostles, see Romans 5:12:Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all, inasmuch as all sinned.

John 3:5Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

 

[fhansen]

Peace & All Good!!

A colleague of mine recently asked me to explain why Adam’s sin carried over to the rest of humanity since it wasn’t a physical/genetic defect and we each have individual souls, independent of each other & our parents…

As a biologist, he could understand it if it were a physical or genetic defect but since our souls are created independently of each other rather than through any kind of reproduction or passing on from a set of parents, he can’t accept it.

Any help with how to explain it would be much appreciated.

It’s a reasonable question. The Church does not claim to know the mechanism by which OS is transmitted -only that it occurs. Humanity is linked corporately. We can’t say a lot more than that.

 

[ichabode]

Jesus did die on the cross for all of our sins, and when we are regenerated in waters of baptism all actual sins and original sin is washed away.

How is original sin transmitted? You are correct that it is tied to us spiritually and not genetically. God desired all of us to be created in a state grace i.e. immediate communion with him. This is a gift from God and not anything inherent, deserving, or a right within human nature less we would be able to “work” (Pelagian heresy) our way to heaven without the grace (love) from God.

Original sin is better understood as a declaration rather than an actual sin, for example you can only go to hell if you have committed an actual sin. No one who dies in a “state” of original sin and has not committed an “actual” sin would go to hell. Original sin is simply a term that states we as children of Adam are no longer created in a state of grace. We join the family of God through the sacrament of baptism.

I like how Frank Sheed once put it. You are not born with the ability to live underwater you have lungs and not gills. Just because God created your soul and brought you into existence does not mean that you could exist in heaven with out the proper apparatus. That external means, outside of human nature, is God’s love. When you are baptized your soul (which operates in your body) now has the ability to operate in heaven.

 

[tonyrey]

Peace and All Good!

Thank you everyone for replying, your answers are much appreciated.

thinkandmull, this is certainly an important part of the topic & I think it’s a part of what my colleague was driving at, since each soul is dependent on God for it’s creation. Independent of any other causes or any normal ways in which characteristics would be passed on-he soul is a gift from God at the moment of conception but doesn’t result from the natural act/process of conception.

The logical conclusion from this perspective would seem to be that God creates the souls with Original Sin, but surely, it it rather that it has to do with our human nature & the precise nature of the union of faculties & constituent parts etc. Perhaps it;S analogous, in a sense to how Christ’s Divine Nature can be said to die as a result of ineffable nature of the hypostatic union with the human nature. Though obviously, we don’t have the 2 natures. In humanity’s case it’s just referring to the unity of different parts of the one nature

So our soul contracts original sin because of the union with our moral nature/common human & psychological makeup shared with our first parents…

Irrefutable!

 

[tonyrey]

I will say, some of these posts have helped me trying to understand original sin, but I still struggle with why Jesus dying on the cross was apparently good enough for every other sin of mankind, BUT not original sin…what would Jesus have to have done differently to have OS included I wonder? If enough people concentrated, put in enough prayers, would this be enough to do away with OS?

Original sin is not a sin in the same sense as other sins because it is not culpable. Prayers can help us to overcome its effects, such as the tendency to selfishness and weakness in the face of temptation, but they cannot make it cease to exist! We are not isolated individuals but members of the human family who are deeply affected by what others have done. Through no fault of our own we are its victims and although Jesus has redeemed us we still have to love others if we wish to be with Him forever. He can’t whisk us away to heaven as if we are saints without any effort on our part!

 

[tonyrey]

Our own human nature is an unique unification of decomposing anatomy and rational soul in a single nature. Our parents at our conception did not say “here a half; there a half.” These two CCC paragraphs can help us understand that it is the unity of our human nature which contracts the State of Original Sin. Our soul is deprived of the original State of Holiness and our body is deprived of the original extraordinary gift by which man would not have to suffer or die.

**364 **The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit: Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day.
**365 **The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body: i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.

The key words are a single nature rather than “a ghost in a machine”!

 

[Vico]

I think the question here is how can the soul contract original sin while being created directly by God

God gave Adam and Eve supernatural (sanctifying grace) and preternatural gifts (integrity, bodily immortality, and impassibility), which we do not naturally receive from our conceptions.

There are three terms to know and use: supernatural, preternatural, and natural.SUPERNATURAL ORDER. The sum total of heavenly destiny and all the divinely established means of reaching that destiny, which surpass the mere powers and capacities of human nature.

PRETERNATURAL. That which is beyond the natural but is not strictly supernatural. It is preternatural either because natural forces are used by God to produce effects beyond their native capacity, or because above-human forces, angelic or demonic, are active in the world of space and time. (Etym. Latin praeter, beyond + natura, nature.)

**NATURAL ORDER. **The built-in arrangement that belongs to things inherently, and that develops them according to the very natures they possess. Contrasted with an artificial or superimposed order. On a universal level, the sum total of all natures, their powers and activities, related to the final end or purpose they have as natural beings. Contrasted with supernatural order.

**FALL OF ADAM. **First sin of the father of the human race. As a result, he lost for himself and his posterity the supernatural gift of sanctifying grace and the preternatural gifts of integrity, bodily immortality, and impassibility. The fall is commonly referred only to Adam because he was appointed the juridical head of the human race, and his guilt was passed on to his progeny. However, Eve also shared in the fall of the human race because she tempted Adam after she yielded to the temptation of the devil. Adam and Eve, although specially gifted by grace, remained free to choose moral evil. They did not yet enjoy the beatific vision of God and consequently had only faith to tell them that what God forbade was truly wrong and what God threatened would really take place. It is uncertain what sin they committed. Most probably it was the disobedience of pride. They yielded to the devil’s suggestion that they would become like God.

Modern Catholic Dictionary at
therealpresence.org/

 

[Bahman]

Peace & All Good!!

A colleague of mine recently asked me to explain why Adam’s sin carried over to the rest of humanity since it wasn’t a physical/genetic defect and we each have individual souls, independent of each other & our parents…

As a biologist, he could understand it if it were a physical or genetic defect but since our souls are created independently of each other rather than through any kind of reproduction or passing on from a set of parents, he can’t accept it.

Any help with how to explain it would be much appreciated.

We cannot be free in performing an action if there is a bias inherited in us related to original sin hence we cannot be responsible for our actions/sins.

 

[grannymh]

I will say, some of these posts have helped me trying to understand original sin, but I still struggle with why Jesus dying on the cross was apparently good enough for every other sin of mankind, BUT not original sin…what would Jesus have to have done differently to have OS included I wonder? If enough people concentrated, put in enough prayers, would this be enough to do away with OS?

May we back up a bit? All the way to the dramatic shift between Genesis1: 25 and Genesis 1: 26?

I am not talking science or figurative language. I am talking about God’s plan for us exhibited by the fact that we are in His image (Genesis 1: 26-28; CCC 355-357) and that there is the requirement that we as creatures need to live in free submission to God as our personal Creator. (Information source. Genesis 2: 15-17; Genesis 3: 9-11; CCC 396; CCC 1730-1732)

When we place ourselves in the Garden and eavesdrop … we find that the Original Sin is unique in many ways. When we struggle with “why Jesus dying on the cross was apparently good enough for every other sin of mankind, BUT not original sin…what would Jesus have to have done differently to have OS included I wonder?” ---- We need to refresh our memory about Original Sin. What was it? What is the status of Adam? Who initiated the original relationship between humanity and Divinity? are starter questions.

Would you be willing to start with talking about the “original problem?”

Links to the universal Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition.

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm