Explaining saints and Mary prayers

[godisgood77]

My goodness, now where did I ever say or even “suggest” that Fatima and Lourdes were not considered private revelations??? Not sure I’m the one doing the twisting! As for the title “Mediatrix of All Graces,” ( you brought it up, no one else refered to it) the Church has used that title for Our Lady and again I will go with the Church and the Saints, not the leaders and faithful that disagree. God Bless, and a Holy Blessed New Year, Memaw

Forgive me, I probably made an unqualified assumption. I was basing my comments on a couple of your statements, but must have read too far in to them. For instance, I thought that when you made reference “To Jesus, through Mary”, you were alluding to St. de Montfort’s spirituality. I made the leap to Mediatrix of All Graces due to the fact that he was a zealous proponent of this pious personal belief. That’s how I got there.

God did, so why not us. The Church teaches, "To Jesus thru Mary. Maybe you should study up on some of the things the Blessed Mother said at Fatima and Lourdes.

For the private revelations, it seemed like with the quote above you were saying “sure, they’re private revelations, but anyone who doesn’t believe them would be an imbecile” That’s how I got to that. The issue lies with me on this. At times tend to be overly sensitive when I feel like a private, personal belief is put forward as a Church teaching that calls for all faithful to believe. Please accept my sincere apologies.

The Church has given us many beautiful devotions over the Centuries and puts GREAT emphasis on devotion to Mary and the Saints. Notice de Montfort and Kolbe both have the word Saint before thier names and they both had a great devotion to Mary. If I’m not mistaken all the Saints I’ve ever read about did too

This seems to be where we are talking past each other. I’m not saying, (nor do I think anyone is saying), not to venerate Mary. My point would be that veneration comes in all sorts of forms, flavors and types… none are required and there isn’t a formula that Church explicitly endorses over another. Some in the Church will say that one way is perfect or true, but the Church does not.

I hope that helps clarify my remarks… was certainly not looking to pick a fight, but am definitely interested in this topic as I struggle sometimes when private revelations are put forward as public.

Pax,
Dan

 

[Memaw]

Forgive me, I probably made an unqualified assumption. I was basing my comments on a couple of your statements, but must have read too far in to them. For instance, I thought that when you made reference “To Jesus, through Mary”, you were alluding to St. de Montfort’s spirituality. I made the leap to Mediatrix of All Graces due to the fact that he was a zealous proponent of this pious personal belief. That’s how I got there.

For the private revelations, it seemed like with the quote above you were saying “sure, they’re private revelations, but anyone who doesn’t believe them would be an imbecile” That’s how I got to that. The issue lies with me on this. At times tend to be overly sensitive when I feel like a private, personal belief is put forward as a Church teaching that calls for all faithful to believe. Please accept my sincere apologies.

,

This seems to be where we are talking past each other. I’m not saying, (nor do I think anyone is saying), not to venerate Mary. My point would be that veneration comes in all sorts of forms, flavors and types… none are required and there isn’t a formula that Church explicitly endorses over another. Some in the Church will say that one way is perfect or true, but the Church does not.

I hope that helps clarify my remarks… was certainly not looking to pick a fight, but am definitely interested in this topic as I struggle sometimes when private revelations are put forward as public.

Pax,
Dan

Again you tend to put your hang-ups in my words. Just what is your problem with devotions the Church has given us steming from private revalations???
The Rosary came from one, the Miraculas Medal did too, Divine Mercy Chaplet also and many others. Pope John Paul II even named the Sunday after Easter as Divine Mercy Sunday Mass. That’s a private revelation! As long as they are approved by the Church, they are worth accepting as part of our prayer life. When I refer to “Jesus through Mary,” I am talking about St. Louis de. Montfort! The Church offers us many beautiful devotions to choose from and yes they are part of Church teaching. I don’t think anyone was putting the private revelations as tho they were Public Revelations. Any Catholic should truely know the difference. If not maybe further study is needed. So no need to struggle with that here. God Bless and a Holy Blessed New Year, Memaw
P.S. Look up the meaning of foolish, (my word) and imbecile, (your word). There is a big difference between the two!!!

 

[godisgood77]

Again you tend to put your hang-ups in my words. Just what is your problem with devotions the Church has given us steming from private revalations???
The Rosary came from one, the Miraculas Medal did too, Divine Mercy Chaplet also and many others. Pope John Paul II even named the Sunday after Easter as Divine Mercy Sunday Mass. That’s a private revelation! As long as they are approved by the Church, they are worth accepting as part of our prayer life. When I refer to “Jesus through Mary,” I am talking about St. Louis de. Montfort! The Church offers us many beautiful devotions to choose from and yes they are part of Church teaching. I don’t think anyone was putting the private revelations as tho they were Public Revelations. Any Catholic should truely know the difference. If not maybe further study is needed. So no need to struggle with that here. God Bless and a Holy Blessed New Year, Memaw
P.S. Look up the meaning of foolish, (my word) and imbecile, (your word). There is a big difference between the two!!!

I think I acknowledged pretty frankly that I was projecting my own ‘hang ups’ and apologized. Thanks for the reinforcement.

I also think I told you what my problem with some devotions that stem from private revelations… the fact that some put them forward as required belief (i.e. Mediatrix of All Graces). I heard a priest tell the congregation that you can not pray to God, but instead have to go to Mary because she is the Mediatrix of All Graces not a month ago. He literally said it and wrote it in the bulletin and said that this was the Church’s teaching. I was listening to Dr. Mark Miravalle last week and he was putting the same forward as dogma. The list goes on…that is ‘my problem’ as you put it. I have no issue with you or anyone else incorporating them.

Despite your condescension, I’ll let you know that I am Catholic and do the know the difference between private and public revelation.

Peace, Dan

PS - If you really want to argue semantics… here are the actual definitions…want to retract the post script from your last post?

im·be·cile
1.a stupid person.
adjective

1. .stupid; idiotic.
   “try not to make imbecile remarks”

fool·ish
adjective
1.(of a person or action) lacking good sense or judgment; unwise.
“it was foolish of you to enter into correspondence”
synonyms: stupid, silly, idiotic, witless, brainless, vacuous, mindless, unintelligent, thoughtless, half-baked, harebrained, imprudent, incautious, injudicious, unwise;

 

[Memaw]

I think I acknowledged pretty frankly that I was projecting my own ‘hang ups’ and apologized. Thanks for the reinforcement.

I also think I told you what my problem with some devotions that stem from private revelations… the fact that some put them forward as required belief (i.e. Mediatrix of All Graces). I heard a priest tell the congregation that you can not pray to God, but instead have to go to Mary because she is the Mediatrix of All Graces not a month ago. He literally said it and wrote it in the bulletin and said that this was the Church’s teaching. I was listening to Dr. Mark Miravalle last week and he was putting the same forward as dogma. The list goes on…that is ‘my problem’ as you put it. I have no issue with you or anyone else incorporating them.

Despite your condescension, I’ll let you know that I am Catholic and do the know the difference between private and public revelation.

Peace, Dan

PS - If you really want to argue semantics… here are the actual definitions…want to retract the post script from your last post?

im·be·cile
1.a stupid person.
adjective

1. .stupid; idiotic.
   “try not to make imbecile remarks”

fool·ish
adjective
1.(of a person or action) lacking good sense or judgment; unwise.
“it was foolish of you to enter into correspondence”
synonyms: stupid, silly, idiotic, witless, brainless, vacuous, mindless, unintelligent, thoughtless, half-baked, harebrained, imprudent, incautious, injudicious, unwise;

No. I meant what I said. I already knew the meanings but I did use the words, in my Post , “a bit foolish,” which means unwise. You used the word imbecile. God Bless, Memaw

 

[ignatius777]

God did, so why not us. The Church teaches, "To Jesus thru Mary. Maybe you should study up on some of the things the Blessed Mother said at Fatima and Lourdes. Not to turn to her would be a big mistake, especially when we realize that she would not be able to come to us if God hadn’t sent her. Food for thought!!, God Bless and a Holy Blessed New Year. Memaw

I was merely responding to the idea that we are “obligated” to turn to Mary. The suggestion is it is a requirement. I don’t believe that’s true. That however is NOT the same as saying we SHOUDLNT turn to Mary. Do you understand the distinction I was trying to make?

 

[ignatius777]

I don’t believe I ever used the words “obliged, obligated or oblige” in what I said. Don’t think the Church uses them either. But you seem to like to put great emphasis on it. The Church has given us many beautiful devotions over the Centuries and puts GREAT emphasis on devotion to Mary and the Saints. Notice de Montfort and Kolbe both have the word Saint before thier names and they both had a great devotion to Mary. If I’m not mistaken all the Saints I’ve ever read about did too. Every Pope, including Francis, since Fatima occured, has stressed listening to Our Lady at Fatima. It has been promoted by the Popes more than any other approved apparition of Our Lady. Don’t you think it would be bit foolish for us to ignore Her? We probably have done to much of that already and that may be why our world is in such a sad shape today. Oh and by the way, I think I will try to follow the example of the Saints and not the " very large percentage of Church leadership and faithful that do not subscribe to it." A very large percentage of Church leadership and faithfull led many astray after Vatican II and we’re starting to come out from under it all. I pray we keep going in the right direction. God Bless, and a Holy, Blessed New Year, Memaw.

By saying praying to Mary is not an obligation is not the same as saying she should be ignored.

 

[Memaw]

By saying praying to Mary is not an obligation is not the same as saying she should be ignored.

I don’t believe I ever said that either. Please read my posts carefully before putting things in it that are not meant to be. God Bless, Memaw

 

[ignatius777]

I don’t believe I ever said that either. Please read my posts carefully before putting things in it that are not meant to be. God Bless, Memaw

Here is what you wrote: "God did, so why not us. The Church teaches, "To Jesus thru Mary. Maybe you should study up on some of the things the Blessed Mother said at Fatima and Lourdes. Not to turn to her would be a big mistake, especially when we realize that she would not be able to come to us if God hadn’t sent her. Food for thought!!, God Bless and a Holy Blessed New Year. Memaw"

If you didnt say what I suggested then your response here to my initial statements is a non response. YOU said not to turn to her is a big mistake. You really should read your own posts more carefully before denying you said things you actually said. God bless Ignatius777

 

[jmisk]

The question has been answered. Please stop bickering.

 

[ignatius777]

The question has been answered. Please stop bickering.

I apologize if I have upset anyone but I am not bickering. I am clarifying what transpired. I wont be told to read more carefully. I read quite well.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Can somebody please explain why we offer up prayers to saints and Mary to interseed for us to Jesus? I have no answer for this to my protestant friends. Why would we offer up prayers to anybody but God? Can we just cut out the middle men and pray directly to God? We aren’t obligated to pray to Mary or the Saints are we?

I know there is biblical reference to praying to saints but do we have to?

Do you fall asleep at night?

So, you really don’t pray without ceasing, but the saints can pray for us without ceasing, and we know that because they are righteous, they availeth much.