Explaining St. Maria Goretti

[Claire_from_DE]

Today is the feast day of Maria Goretti.

 

[KellBrigan]

This is an old thread.

Maria’s story isn’t about rape or ‘preserving her virginity’. Allesandro was a young man who lived in the same building on the farm where Maria’s family lived. He became very involved with pornography. He wanted to experiment with sex with Maria and wanted her to agree to that. She wouldn’t agree because she knew it was sinful. She didn’t want to sin and also didn’t want him to sin. Her concern wasn’t just for herself.

He didn’t want to rape her; he wanted her participation. He gave her an ultimatum but she still refused. When the adults were in the fields and Maria was with the sleeping baby in the house he gave her one last chance to consent to having sex with him but still she refused. She wouldn’t agree to sin with him. In his anger, instead of raping her, he struck her with a knife. Actually, as far as I know he didn’t attempt to rape her.

The reason she is a saint is that she was faithful to God and wouldn’t participate in Allesandro’s sin, not because she resisted rape. There would have been no sin if she had given in to rape and the church does not say a woman must fight if she is threatened with rape. This was a Jewish law, but is not a Christian requirement.

Maria’s story is certainly not about holding on to ‘mere physical virginity’. She wouldn’t have ‘become impure’ by being raped.

Maria showed heroic virtue because she suffered greatly in the hospital after the stabbing but forgave her murderer from her heart.

A little research would have given you correct information about Maria Goretti. Why are you so angry about a people honoring a girl who refused to agree to sin? This whole thing has nothing to do with rape.

IT DOESN’T MATTER IF THIS IS AN “OLD THREAD.” TRANSLATION: “WHY DON’T YOU IRRITATING RAPED PEOPLE JUST GO AWAY.”

IF YOUR VERSION OF THE STORY MATCHES THE CHURCH’S AND THE MAJORITY OF CATHOLICS’ VERSIONS, THEN WHY IS GORETTI PRESENTED AS A PATRON SAINT FOR WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN RAPED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER???

AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, THE SICK ASSOCIATION OF THIS STORY WITH RAPE STARTED WITH HER CANONIZATION, AND ORIGINATES WITH THE VATICAN ITSELF. YOU CAN’T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS – EITHER THE CHURCH IS CLAIMING THAT RAPE MAKES THE VICTIM “IMPURE,” OR THE CHURCH GETS THAT GORETTI’S STORY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RAPE.

WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT? WHICH IS IT?

WHERE’S THE GREAT BIG INTERNATIONAL PRESS RELEASE TELLING EVERYONE WHO THINKS GORETTI IS A PATRON FOR RAPE VICTIMS THAT THEY’RE WRONG AND SICK AND HATEFUL? WHERE’S THE APOLOGIES FOR RAPE VICTIMS FOR THIS DECADES LONG HATE FEST?

And, how many women and girls and boys over the past hundred years have been told to go to confession for the sin if “impurity???”

Still ready to leave, SOLELY because of this issue. Still disgusted. Still sickened, especially at the FACT that so few “good Catholics” are outraged about this sickening, askew, hypocritical mixture of messages. Yes it sure as HELL is IMPORTANT and CURRENT, and yet it keeps getting shoved around, and rape victims still keep getting blaimed for not being willing to put up with this sort of hate and game playing.

IT’S MORE THAN OVERDUE FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO CONDEMN ANYONE WHO DRAWS ANY SORT OF CORRELATION BETWEEN THE GORETTI TRAGEDY AND RAPE VICTIMS, OR WHO DARES TO OFFER UP GORETTI AS SOME SORT OF “MODEL” FOR RAPE VICTIMS. THIS INCLUDES PAST POPES AND ANYONE ELSE IN THE VATICAN WHO’S EVER BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS SICKENING, HATEFUL MISOGYNY. CONDEMNING RAPE VICTIMS WHO IDENTIFY AND POINT OUT THIS HATRED IS JUST AS BAD AS CREATING THIS HATE IN THE FIRST PLACE. GET OFF YOUR LAZY CORPUSES AND GOOGLE “PATRON SAINT RAPE VICTIMS” AND LOOK AT THE SICKENING REGULARITY WITH WHICH GORETTI’S NAME SHOWS UP. AND YET, WHEN CONVENIENT, WANNABE APOLOGISTS IGNORE ALL THE EVIDENCE AND TRY TO CLAIM THE CHURCH ISN’T SAYING RAPE VICTIMS SHOULD BE DEAD. STOP LYING AND PLAYING MIND GAMES AND BEING HYPOCRITES, AND LOOK AT THE LONG LISTS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL “PREACHING” THAT GORETTI IS SOMEHOW A PATRON FOR RAPE VICTIMS.

 

[puzzleannie]

please stop shouting we can’t hear you when you shout

the proper explanation has been given
if you don’t care to follow the links and read the truth, fine, but there is no point resurrecting an old discussion on a question that has already been answered

 

[KellBrigan]

please stop shouting we can’t hear you when you shout

the proper explanation has been given
if you don’t care to follow the links and read the truth, fine, but there is no point resurrecting an old discussion on a question that has already been answered

THE QUESTION HAS NOT NOT NOT NOT BEEN ANSWERED. If the Goretti cult is not obsessively claiming that a woman is better off dead than “defiled,” (“Because she would have rathered death instead of giving up her virginity…” is how someone further up in the thread put it) if the Goretti cult is not saying “better dead than raped,” than why is Goretti presented as a patron saint for rape victims?

Thanks for helping me feeling better about leaving this sick religion for good.

 

[Statius]

THE QUESTION HAS NOT NOT NOT NOT BEEN ANSWERED. If the Goretti cult is not obsessively claiming that a woman is better off dead than “defiled,” (“Because she would have rathered death instead of giving up her virginity…” is how someone further up in the thread put it) if the Goretti cult is not saying “better dead than raped,” than why is Goretti presented as a patron saint for rape victims?

Thanks for helping me feeling better about leaving this sick religion for good.

I understand, at least in so far as my own limited and sheltered experience allows. I’m concerned that the story of Maria Goretti might give the impression that women are better dead than raped. A woman who has survived rape has done nothing wrong and some retellings of Maria Goretti’s life do have regrettable undertones.

Maria Goretti is still one of my favourite saints, not because she chose death over rape (she resisted rape, of course she did, but she didn’t chose death) but because, as she lay dying, she forgave her murderer and prayed for him. Through her intercession Alessandro Serenneli, guilty of some of the worst things one human can do to another, repented his sins, attended the canonization of the one he had killed and ended his life tending a monastery garden.

That she is considered the patron saint of rape victims seems understandable, but still makes me a uncomfortable. I think her a perfect patron, however, for men who have struggled with sexual purity and their attitudes towards women. If she prayed for Alessandro Serenelli, won’t she pray for those who struggle with the same problems which tempted him down such a dark path?

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

I have a friend who is an atheist. When I decided to become a catechumen and join the Church, she didn’t speak to me for a few weeks. However, we are now on speaking terms again. I’m having issues though, in that she questions many things about the Church and I obviously don’t have all the answers. Earlier today, we had quite a heated discussion about St. Maria Goretti.

Just a bit of background before I continue. I was raped when I was a little girl, by a grown man. My friend knows about this.

She happened to read about St. Maria Goretti this past week and was telling me she thinks the whole story of St. Maria Goretti is a load of BS made up by the Church. She had many objections to the story, but the one that stands out to me is, she doesn’t understand how Maria was able to fight off her rapist.

The story itself can’t be “a load of BS made up by the Church.” It’s relatively recent (happened about a century ago), and not too long ago her attacker himself was still alive (he had joined a monastery). Concerning “Maria fighting off her rapist,” I’ll comment below:

She feels Maria’s would-be rapist simply chose not to rape her. That he could have overtaken her if he liked… and it was, therefore, no virtue on her part to “resist”. If she had the ability to resist and succeed, then it wasn’t really rape.

Actually, it seems to be true that he basically gave up and just killed her. That would only negate Maria’s virtue if her virtue were in preventing rape.

But that’s not what made her resistance virtuous. This is a common misunderstanding of her story, one that tragically leads many to conclude that the whole thing is a participation in the sexist, “better dead than raped” ideology. But nothing could be farther from the truth:

Note that the accounts of what happened make it clear that one of the things St. Maria Goretti kept repeating was, “It’s a sin - you’ll go to hell.” Her greatness lies in her concern for her attacker’s soul. She went well above and beyond the call of duty in attempting to prevent this man from committing evil out of concern for him. That is why she is a saint.

She also commented that having St. Maria Goretti as the patron saint of girls who’ve been raped is a slap in the face. She feels I should be insulted by this. Because, she was able to resist being raped, which means (in her opinion), that indirectly the Church is implying that being raped is a child’s own fault, i.e., according to the Catholic Church, I personally am not as virtuous as St. Maria Goretti because I “gave in” to my rapist…

A common misconception about the canonization of St. Maria Goretti. Fortunately, however, the Catholic Church understands quite well that no one is ever to blame for being raped, to any degree, ever. Not you, not St. Maria Goretti - no one. Her struggle for heroic chastity was a struggle for the chastity of her attacker, whose soul she was more concerned for than her own even in her darkest hour.

That is why she is a hero.

I’m not saying I believe what my friend is saying. I want to understand the Church’s teaching on this. But… I do have to admit I am stumped by her argument. I mean, from my personal experience… I personally fought my rapist, I screamed and punched him and so on, but it was to no avail as he was bigger and stronger than me. I really had no choice and could not fight him off…

And even if you had not fought against him, you still would not be culpable AT ALL in ANY way for what he did to you. Rape is never under any circumstances even slightly the victim’s fault.

Likewise, St. Maria Goretti could not stop her attacker (though as your friend points out, he chose to kill her instead of raping her), but her sacrifice was not in vain. He repented, attended her canonization, and eventually joined a monastery.

I don’t know what to say to her about this. I am at a loss. Maybe I need to read a little more in depth about St. Maria Goretti’s story as I’ve only read a very short account of it. In any event I’d be grateful for anyone’s insight or thoughts.

I hope my words bring clarity and comfort to you in your understanding of this matter, and illumination of Maria Goretti’s sainthood to your friend. May God bless you, Susan Calvin.

THE QUESTION HAS NOT NOT NOT NOT BEEN ANSWERED. If the Goretti cult is not obsessively claiming that a woman is better off dead than “defiled,” (“Because she would have rathered death instead of giving up her virginity…” is how someone further up in the thread put it) if the Goretti cult is not saying “better dead than raped,” than why is Goretti presented as a patron saint for rape victims?

Saints are often made “patrons” of things they have only the slightest connection to. I think you’re reading too much into it.

St. Michael the Archangel is the patron saint of radiologists. Why? I have no idea.