Exploring Traditional Catholicism but have Concerns

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CanMan86

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I, like many, am shocked at what goes on today in many Novus Ordo masses. My parish is a particularly heart breaking case. I have been beginning to explore traditional Catholicism but too often find a very anti-Pope Benedict anti-Vatican II sentiment. I would love to become active in more traditional Catholic communities but not if this kind of attitude is common. My question is, what kind of attitude do traditional Catholic tend to have towards our Pope and Vatican II. I find some traditionals bordering a protestant-type attitude, something like “we are right and the Church is wrong.”

I want to embrace traditional Catholicism but have concerns. How many traditional Catholics are pro Pope Benedict and pro Vatican II? How many aren’t? What’s the typical attitude of traditional Catholics about these issues? I’m not talking about groups like SSPX, etc. I’m referring to traditional Catholics in 100% communion with Rome.
 
For my part I have zero issue with the second Vatican council or Pope Benedict (our youngest son is named after him). The biggest issue since VII is with those things done in “the spirit” of Vatican II (i.e. attitude that VII said we don’t need Latin in the mass, greater participation of the laity means that they have a right to be readers, EMHC, etc.).

Now we aren’t “full on” traditionalist in the vein that refuses to attend anything but a Tridentine Mass, but we hold very firmly to traditional teachings of the Church. We attend mass at an FSSP parish ever month or two and there are some there that are not fans of the Pope or the how things have changed in the past 50 years, but those people tend to be in the minority. Most people that attend the TLM do so because they feel it is more reverent without the drum kits, 20 people rushing into the sanctuary to exercise “their ministry”, etc. Also many of those that attend are large home schooling families (i.e. 8+ kids) that for some reason have been “shunned” at their local parish as the “weirdos” that need to stop having kids.

In other words many are drawn to TLM parishes not because they reject the Pope or VII, but because the parish and expression of faith serve their needs in a way that their local NO parish doesn’t.
 
CanMan86 said:
I, like many, am shocked at what goes on today in many Novus Ordo masses. My parish is a particularly heart breaking case. I have been beginning to explore traditional Catholicism but too often find a very anti-Pope Benedict anti-Vatican II sentiment. I would love to become active in more traditional Catholic communities but not if this kind of attitude is common. My question is, what kind of attitude do traditional Catholic tend to have towards our Pope and Vatican II. I find some traditionals bordering a protestant-type attitude, something like “we are right and the Church is wrong.”

I want to embrace traditional Catholicism but have concerns. How many traditional Catholics are pro Pope Benedict and pro Vatican II? How many aren’t? What’s the typical attitude of traditional Catholics about these issues? I’m not talking about groups like SSPX, etc. I’m referring to traditional Catholics in 100% communion with Rome.
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I would suggest you find a parish with a very reverent OF mass and with parishioners who are more orthodox, and stick to that. If you are not comfortable questioning anything, then don’t. 🙂

I personally believe you can be traditional without being traditionalist. I believe you are attempting to describe traditionalists.

The truth is, traditionalists are not going to be gung-ho about the changes that came about after Vatican II.

Most of the traditionalists I know love our Holy Father, Benedict.
 
Until recently, I was a lapsed Catholic. I simply drifted away from the Church. I attend Holy Mass with my wife at St. Mary of Sorrow (Fairfax, VA), which sits adjacent to our geographic parish of St. Andrew the Apostle (Clifton, VA). My wife switched to St. Mary’s before my reversion because St. Andrew evolved into a very conservative parish. My wife is a Charismatic Catholic who enjoys the OF Mass on Sundays and the Healing Mass during the week. St. Mary’s Sunday Mass is fine, but I miss the solemnity of the Latin or High Mass I enjoyed during my youth. I like traditional hymns, kneeling for Communion at the altar, accepting the Eucharist orally and, most of all, I enjoy the solemnity associated with the Mass of old. I have no problem with the idea of having the priest offering Mass with his back to the congregation. I am there to worship Christ, not to sing the latest Christian hymns to strumming guitars, etc. I love the solemnity of a Catholic church. I love Catholic rituals, all of which have sacred meaning. Mass is a serious matter, a place for deep prayer and contemplation.

Consequently, I am thinking of attending St. Andrew’s Latin Mass every Sunday alone. I also note that Opus Dei offers a monthly mini-retreat at St. Andrew the Apostle:

“Priests of the Opus Dei Prelature conduct evenings of Recollection for Men on the 2nd Tuesday of each month from 7:30 to 9:00 pm in the Holy Family Chapel. An evening of recollection is a mini-retreat, which is intended to help lay people put their faith into practice in their daily lives. Different themes of Christian life are covered each month. It is an opportunity for personal prayer, examination of conscience, confession and Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, with a view to putting the different aspects of life into proper perspective.”

I don’t go to Holy Mass simply to fulfill my Sunday obligation. I attend Mass to worship Christ in a solemn setting. Wise move to switch over solo to St. Andrew the Apostle? Suggestions?
 
CanMan86, I didn’t mean to distract from your post. Your words inspired my reply with concerns I myself have over modernism. Please accept my apology for diverting attention from your original queries.
 
Try to locate an FSSP parish or Institute of Christ the King church. These are solid bets.

The obvious move is to go “parish shopping”. I know some folks don’t like that as an alternative, but I would not hesitate.

To explore a little more check out some TLM’s on youtube to see if that appeals to you.
God Bless you in your search.
 
CanMan86 said:
I, like many, am shocked at what goes on today in many Novus Ordo masses. My parish is a particularly heart breaking case. I have been beginning to explore traditional Catholicism but too often find a very anti-Pope Benedict anti-Vatican II sentiment. I would love to become active in more traditional Catholic communities but not if this kind of attitude is common. My question is, what kind of attitude do traditional Catholic tend to have towards our Pope and Vatican II. I find some traditionals bordering a protestant-type attitude, something like “we are right and the Church is wrong.”

I want to embrace traditional Catholicism but have concerns. How many traditional Catholics are pro Pope Benedict and pro Vatican II? How many aren’t? What’s the typical attitude of traditional Catholics about these issues? I’m not talking about groups like SSPX, etc. I’m referring to traditional Catholics in 100% communion with Rome.
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I don’t know of any traddies, except Sedevacantists who I wouldn’t even consider traditional Catholics but something else entirely, who hate or dislike Pope Benedict. I can say for myself that I quite love our Papa, and I think you will find that FSSP/ICRSS and even most SSPX priests and lay people do as well. So I see this mainly as a non-issue. For as many traddies who are anti-Benedict, I guarantee you there are 10 “liberal” Catholics who are. It’s no secret that organizations like the NCR don’t much care for him…

Vatican II… I am not a fan of most things to come in the name of Vatican II. I have no problem with Vatican II itself. I am turned off by the fact that I see very many people practically worship the Council itself and justify all sorts of wacky things with it that it never even hints at in the documents themselves.
 
Much of the problem I have as a traditionalist is that, from what I see, to many modern Catholics Vatican II is what sola scriptura is to protestants. It is because of that that we see so much novelty in the post-Vatican II era. There are, of course, other problems, but that seems to be a real kicker there.
 
I think some traditionalist Catholics think the Pope isn’t rigourous enough. They are exposed to solemn Masses and sound doctrine all the time so when the latest scandal manifests in the mainstream media, it’s “How long, oh Lord, how long?”.

I think he was perceived as a liberal, once, also. I think he thought that Vatican II would bear good fruit. As a professor, he can see how the resulting novelties and fancies contradict Tradition. So he’s putting things to rights.

When anyone criticises now him I tick off the things he has done:
  • Motu Proprio
  • Anglicanorum Coetibus
  • A revision of the Novus Ordo mass
  • The removal of the ecomunications of the SSPX bishops
  • The ongoing attempt at the regularisation of the SSPX
  • Asserting himself in the English Houses of Parliament and Westminster Abbey(!)
  • The examination of the Church in Ireland
  • The examination of that sisters organisation in America
  • Anti-pedophilia crackdown
  • A swipe at the renengade Austrian priests
  • A declaration on Medjugorje due in about a year’s time
And that’s just off the top of my head! He’s playing a blinder! Can anyone add to that list?
 
CanMan86 said:
How many traditional Catholics are pro Pope Benedict and pro Vatican II?
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My fiancee and I don’t consider ourselves to be traditional Catholics, but we find the Faith most clearly expressed in the traditional Mass, traditional catechisms, and traditional Catholic worldview. And we feel safe there, like we can let down the guard we keep up out in the world, because we can trust our pastors’ orthodoxy and orthopraxy.

We love Pope Benedict and will attend a Novus Ordo (we call them Ordinary Form) Mass if need be. We don’t quite get Vatican II (who does?) but we accept it’s the real deal. We love the vibrant parish and family traditions that most Catholics don’t know exist, and we love talking about them to anyone who will listen. We don’t go around criticizing the pope or the bishops (okay, she’s better at that) because we’re laity and we don’t feel its our place, even though statements and actions of the hierarchy do trouble us at times; we just pray our Rosaries for the holy father’s intentions.

The Church says it’s okay for us to live the same way Catholics did in 1960 or 1860 or 1760, etc and we can still be just “Catholics,” we don’t have to be called “trads.” That said, I feel more comfortable hanging out with self-proclaimed “trads” than other Catholics; they’re some of the best Catholics I’ve known.

You don’t have to fit in a box. Don’t let those fears stand between you and all the treasures you haven’t found yet.
 
Most people who try to live the Catholic faith authentically are outcasts in their own OF parish. Sad, but true. I am not saying there are not pockets of orthodoxy out there, but it’s hard to find. This is because most of the herd of Catholics go to mainstream parishes. So, you are going to get the whole spectrum of Catholics.

EF parishes tend to attract the conservative types who value what the Church actually teaches. Those who want the Church to roll with the times are not going to worship at a MAss where the liturgy doesn’t roll with the times.
 
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