Ezekiel/Psalms question

[AveChriste11]

Dear all,

Is there a way of looking at this verse, while still accepting things like Original Sin and the substitution atonement?

“The soul that sinneth, the same shall die: the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, and the father shall not bear the iniquity of the son: the justice of the just shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” (Ezekiel 18:20, Douay-Rheims)

Also what about,

"1 Alleluia, of Aggeus and Zacharias.
2 Praise the Lord, O my soul, in my life I will praise the Lord: I will sing to my God as long as I shall be. Put not your trust in princes:

3 in the children of men, in whom there is no salvation.

4 His spirit shall go forth, and he shall return into his earth: in that day all their thoughts shall perish." (Psalms 146-1-4, Douay-Rheims)

I’m interested in the Catholic perspective on this, given our belief in Jesus’ atonement and in the Holy Trinity. I can’t seem to think of an answer to it myself…

 

[Mintaka]

In a mysterious way, Adam and Eve weren’t just the ancestors of humankind; they were Humankind, and they were all of God’s Creation and its head or crown. God created Man, and they were it. Anything they did counted as being done by the whole human race throughout time, and affected all creatures in Creation (at least below the angel level, in the world of matter, as opposed to spirit and eternity).

The only way we can start to understand this is how the New Adam, Christ, is also the sum total of the New Humankind. We live in Him as parts of His Body. Any good we do is what He does within us; any evil we do hurts Him on the Cross; and we can draw on all sorts of things that He has done and is doing for us, and that other parts of His Body have done and are doing.

As an individual human being, my sins are my own problem. If I lie to somebody, my kid is not going to be born with a Pinocchio nose because of it.

As a member of the Body of Adam and of the Body of Christ, my sins are everybody’s problem. I will never know (until the Judgment) who they affect, just as I will never know how my prayers and sacrifices help other members of Christ’s Body or even other bits of Creation.

It’s mysterious and complicated, but there you go.

 

[jcrichton]

Dear all,

Is there a way of looking at this verse, while still accepting things like Original Sin and the substitution atonement?

“The soul that sinneth, the same shall die: the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, and the father shall not bear the iniquity of the son: the justice of the just shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” (Ezekiel 18:20, Douay-Rheims)

Also what about,

"1 Alleluia, of Aggeus and Zacharias.
2 Praise the Lord, O my soul, in my life I will praise the Lord: I will sing to my God as long as I shall be. Put not your trust in princes:

3 in the children of men, in whom there is no salvation.

4 His spirit shall go forth, and he shall return into his earth: in that day all their thoughts shall perish." (Psalms 146-1-4, Douay-Rheims)

I’m interested in the Catholic perspective on this, given our belief in Jesus’ atonement and in the Holy Trinity. I can’t seem to think of an answer to it myself…

Yahweh God’s Salvific Plan was set forth from the Beginning:

8 So you are never to be ashamed of witnessing to our Lord, or ashamed of me for being his prisoner; but share in my hardships for the sake of the gospel, relying on the power of God 9 who has saved us and called us to be holy – not because of anything we ourselves had done but for his own purpose and by his own grace. This grace had already been granted to us, in Christ Jesus, before the beginning of time, 10 but it has been revealed only by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus. He has abolished death, and he has brought to light immortality and life through the gospel, (1 Timothy 2:8-10)

…so while the Father will not charge you for my sin, your sin, mine, and that of the whole world is perfectly transfered to Christ, the Lamb of God, in order to erradicate death (the wages of sin) from humanity… it is by Christ’s Blood (the High Priest, the King of king, Lord of lords, the only Perfect Sacrifice) that the debt can be paid… as for the temporal consequences of sins both the sinner and his offsprings are indebted as Yahweh God’s Wrath can be visited upon the 4th generation; still, from God’s Perspective He is charging the original sinner not his descendants.

Hope this helps!

Maran atha!

Angel