Faith Questions

[SeekingAnswers1]

Greetings, I’ve been born and raised a Catholic. As I’m approaching 30 years old, I’m taking an inventory on my beliefs, and looking into other spiritual avenues.
One question I have is, Spending my entire life in Catholic Schools, Attending mass weekly, family prayer and bible study… I’ve yet to see a passage that Negates Matthew 5:17.
Why do Christians feel, that the coming of Jesus has fulfilled the requirements of the Old Testament, so we don’t have to follow the requirements, when he says (I don’t have my bible with me so bear with me)… to the extent that, He has come in order to fulfill the prophecies, yet every law given in the old testament remains as true now as it was before his birth.
And if we are to say that the Old Testament has been fulfilled, then why are the 10 Commandments still ‘Valid’ ? Thank you!

 

[Totterman]

Jesus,our Lords peace be whit You.
The ansver You are looking for is in Matt.5:21-26.
Blessings,
Totterman

 

[JRKH]

First of all, Welcome to CAF. And my God bless you for seeking to deepen your understanding of The Faith.

You ask a very good question.
I too, after being away from the Church some 35 years had to answer some of these kinds of questions as I as drawn back into The Church. I will share with you below what I have gleaned.

The reason that we no longer fall under Mosaic Law is because we are no longer under the Old Covenant. It has been replaced with the New Covenant of Jesus Sacrifice.
The reason that the Church has retained the ten commandments is because they are an excellent summary of all of the Law that followed from them. They are easily taught, even to small children, and are an excellent jumping off points and touchstones for the Christian deepen their understanding of their faith and to keep to the right path.

We can see an excellant example of how this new freedom plays out in Acts 15 and the council of Jerusalem.
In this text we see a group of Jewish converts going to the Gentiles in Antioch and telling them that they must be circumisized and follow the other Mosaic Laws in order to be saved. This group are refered to at the “Judaizers”. Not even the great debator and evangelist St Paul could settle the matter. So it was taken before the Church leadership in Jerusalem. After much debate and discussion the council decided NOT to hold the Gentiles (and by extension, any Christian) to the requirements of the Mosaic Law. Since this council contained at least two of those who walked with Jesus (Peter and James) during His ministry and had received from His own lmouth the power to “Bind and Loose” (MT 16:17-19, Mt 18-15-18), there can be no doubt that they were acting in accordance with His desires for His Church.

Furhter, In 1 Cor 10:23, St Paul also says, “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up…
He says this in relation to the specific instance of eating foods that might have been sacrificed to pagan gods. But the implication of it is that he is no longer bound by the external and stringent laws of the the Old Covenant.

I hope some of this is helpful to you.

Peace
James

 

[SeekingAnswers1]

JRKH that is what I am looking for! thank you very much! My main problem with my faith, is the Old Testament, God made so many promises, and Covenants with the Jews, not saying of the expiration date forthe coming of the Messiah. And also, the many ‘requirements’ for the Messiah, which Jesus didn’t accomplish the majority of. For instance, he did die prior to the second temple, which is correct. But the prophecy also says, that ALL men will know and worship Israel’s God, as well as their swords will be turned to plowing shears, there will be no more wars, all men will know peace.
If you take that to the strictest of the word, then there can never be a Messiah. the second temple has already been destroyed, so from 70AD on, no Messiah can be born. And Jesus, did not accomplish the other required ‘jobs’ of the Messiah…
Another problem I have is with Christian “idolatry” the jews were given rules inthe Old Testament that they follow today. In temples, there is not allowed a picture of animals, or people, no living beings. Much like at Mount Sinai, when Moses was given the 10 commandments. The Israelites were worshipping the golden calf. Well it’s not that they thought, a cow created the world etc. They made something to symbolize God and worshipped it. In Churches, I have a problem with Crucifixes all over the place, the stations of the Cross etc. It has always bothered me, that we seem to be worshipping Jesus, which we can not and SHOULD NOT do… we should acknowledge Jesus, and worship God. Am I wrong in thinking this? Thank you!

 

[fhansen]

It has always bothered me, that we seem to be worshipping Jesus, which we can not and SHOULD NOT do… we should acknowledge Jesus, and worship God. Am I wrong in thinking this? Thank you!

Well, yes you’re wrong in this because Catholics-as well as all Christians-believe that Jesus is God.

In regard to the Law, Jesus said in Matt 5, the Sermon on the Mount, that He didn’t come to abolish it but to fulfill it. We’re to follow Him in fulfilling it also; He goes on to tell us that our righteousness must exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees. And this fulfillment is what the New Covenant is all about.

Because, now, the Law (which is said to be spiritual while fallen man is not), is to be fulfilled by the grace of God, He writing His law in our hearts and on our minds and becoming the God of us individually according to Jer 31:33., as He was before the fall, This occurs as we come to love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves, because, “…love is the fulfillment of the Law”. Rom 13:10

So the Law is still in effect but the NC, ushered in by Jesus, tells us we can’t fulfill it on our own. We must live by the spirit, cooperating with God who justifies us (makes us right), as we turn fully back to Him.

 

[SeekingAnswers1]

OKay, Jesus IS God…but that still doesn’t answer why we must have his likeness on the alter? I see your point, but… please don’t take offense to this, I truly just want to learn… but it seems we are worshipping a ‘golden calf’, and as far as the scripture that I was referring to in Matthew 5, Jesus states in verse 17:
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disapear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.”
To me that is Jesus saying, that we must follow the Jewish traditions, and laws of old… and later, after his death, in Acts 15, Paul and Barnabas decide that to make it easier for those to convert, they will do away with the old traditions and laws.

 

[JRKH]

JRKH that is what I am looking for! thank you very much! My main problem with my faith, is the Old Testament, God made so many promises, and Covenants with the Jews, not saying of the expiration date forthe coming of the Messiah. And also, the many ‘requirements’ for the Messiah, which Jesus didn’t accomplish the majority of. For instance, he did die prior to the second temple, which is correct. But the prophecy also says, that ALL men will know and worship Israel’s God, as well as their swords will be turned to plowing shears, there will be no more wars, all men will know peace.
If you take that to the strictest of the word, then there can never be a Messiah. the second temple has already been destroyed, so from 70AD on, no Messiah can be born. And Jesus, did not accomplish the other required ‘jobs’ of the Messiah…

You have a number of interesting questions here. For the best answers to these, I would suggest that you post them over on the “Apologetics - Sacred Scripture” forum. There are a number of very wonderful and knowledgabel people over there who can help you.

Another problem I have is with Christian “idolatry” the jews were given rules inthe Old Testament that they follow today. In temples, there is not allowed a picture of animals, or people, no living beings. Much like at Mount Sinai, when Moses was given the 10 commandments. The Israelites were worshipping the golden calf. Well it’s not that they thought, a cow created the world etc. They made something to symbolize God and worshipped it.

Well in the case of Catholic statures etc, we do not worship them so we’re “good” there.
Also, while there is a prohibition on such statuary, if you look in the seme books, you will find God ordering the making of “graven images” on the very Ark of the Covenent. Also, in the descriptions of the building of the temple, there are images carved of things on the earth (palms) etc. So obviously there is a more subtle understanding to this commandment than just the strict reading of it.

In Churches, I have a problem with Crucifixes all over the place, the stations of the Cross etc. It has always bothered me, that we seem to be worshipping Jesus, which we can not and SHOULD NOT do… we should acknowledge Jesus, and worship God. Am I wrong in thinking this? Thank you!

Jesus IS God (second person of the Trinity). Firther since there is one God in threee divine persons, when one prays to or worships one of these persons, they are worshiping all. so when we worship Christ, we are also worshipping the Father and the holy Spirit.

The growth of teh use of statuary in Churches had to do a lot with the growth of the Church to worldwide and the litaracy of the faithful. Statues, paintings, icons etc. Provde a “Picture scripture” to these people.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

OKay, Jesus IS God…but that still doesn’t answer why we must have his likeness on the alter? I see your point, but… please don’t take offense to this, I truly just want to learn… but it seems we are worshipping a ‘golden calf’,

Well this one is easy - Don’t worship the crucifix. I certanily don’t worship the crucifix and the Church doesn’t tell us to worship the crucifx, so just don’t do it…
Now you’re “good to go”.

and as far as the scripture that I was referring to in Matthew 5, Jesus states in verse 17:
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disapear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.”
To me that is Jesus saying, that we must follow the Jewish traditions, and laws of old… and later, after his death, in Acts 15, Paul and Barnabas decide that to make it easier for those to convert, they will do away with the old traditions and laws.

But you see, paul and Barnabas were not the ones who made it official Church doctrine. It was the Church leadership, meeting in council and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit who made the determination. They did so after patiently listening to both sides of the argument in which, I’m sure, the very concerns you express were raised.
If you look at Mt 18:15-18 you can see how this issue worked its way from the individuals involved, to the local church in Antioch and thence to the Church in council at Jerusalem.
Step one, individuals discussed it. Step two, the local community discussed it. Step three it was taken to “The Church” and the Church, with authority to bind and loose…“Whatever”. made the determination. THEN the etire faithful, Jew and Gentile alike abided by the decision of the Church, (listened to The Church).

Peace
James

 

[SeekingAnswers1]

JRKH Thank you very much! When I was in Catholic School, I was actually sent to the principal’s office, and detention for posing such questions as they were “going against God”.
That experience had actually pushed me further from God… Thank you all for helping with my questions!! I’m very glad I found this little home on the Internet

 

[JRKH]

JRKH Thank you very much! When I was in Catholic School, I was actually sent to the principal’s office, and detention for posing such questions as they were “going against God”.
That experience had actually pushed me further from God… Thank you all for helping with my questions!! I’m very glad I found this little home on the Internet

You are welcome.
I can relate to the “Catholic School” thing. I went grades 1-8 from 1961 to 1969. Right across the Vatican II “divide”. Started out withe the Latin Mass Baltimore Catechism and and ended with the “guitar mass” and the “good news bible” and “Godspel” generation.

I finally left the Church (more out of sloth than conviction) for nearly 35 years. Since I’ve been back and found this website, I have never found a question that could not be answered both inside the Church’s teachings AND to my satisfaction.

Peace
James

 

[MagsM]

It has always bothered me, that we seem to be worshipping Jesus, which we can not and SHOULD NOT do… we should acknowledge Jesus, and worship God. Am I wrong in thinking this? Thank you!

Hi Seeking…James has done a great job in answering your questions, but I had a couple of comments I thought might help. Like you both, I also had similar questions on my faith, so I understand where you’re coming from.

The above question draws me to Jesus’ words in John 5:22-23: “The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him”

And of course, we should remember that the Lord our God is One…Jesus is the Word of God - not separate from the Father, and always in unity with Him. John 14:8-9 “Phillip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, Have I been with you so long and yet you do not know me, Phillip? He who has seen me has seen the Father.”

Other advice I found useful is to always ask God for explanation of scripture, and He will lead you in the right place. This website has answered many of my questions too. I hope that helps somewhat.

 

[SeekingAnswers1]

Thank you Mags! Yeah I haven’t gone to church in years, recently been considering converting to Judaism… But I truly feel lost without having Catholicism in my life, as it’s always been a home to me…

 

[MagsM]

Thank you Mags! Yeah I haven’t gone to church in years, recently been considering converting to Judaism… But I truly feel lost without having Catholicism in my life, as it’s always been a home to me…

Oh sweetness, I pray that your faith be strengthened, and that you turn your whole heart to God in prayer about this. Please remember 1 John 2:23 “Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.”

I hear you about not going to church. I had church hopped among the Protestant denominations - I tried just about every one of them including Messianic Judaism. Nothing was right, there was always the reverence missing - it seemed like they were talking with “Uncle Jesus” and not God, or too busy learning instead of worshiping, or they would not read from the Old Testament or reverence the Father as well as the Son, or they were critical of everything except themselves, etc. I just stopped going but I kept praying about it. I’m very happy where I am now. Are you asking Him in prayer where He would want you to be? He cares and He’ll show you. After all, they are of His making

 

[fhansen]

OKay, Jesus IS God…but that still doesn’t answer why we must have his likeness on the alter? I see your point, but… please don’t take offense to this, I truly just want to learn… but it seems we are worshipping a ‘golden calf’, and as far as the scripture that I was referring to in Matthew 5, Jesus states in verse 17:
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disapear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.”
To me that is Jesus saying, that we must follow the Jewish traditions, and laws of old… and later, after his death, in Acts 15, Paul and Barnabas decide that to make it easier for those to convert, they will do away with the old traditions and laws.

It’s hard to know how specific Jesus was being but the main point was made in Matt 22:

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

This is our righteousness and fulfills the Law. Paul wasn’t talking about this when he spoke of works of the Law. He himself was perfect in obedience according to his own testimony but he still didn’t fulfill the Law because he lacked* love*. The obedience that comes from our own efforts for the purpose of putting on a show of holiness is hypocrisy-it’s the opposite of love really because it comes from pride. This kind of “obedience” Jesus denounced and so did Paul.

 

[JRKH]

Thank you Mags! Yeah I haven’t gone to church in years, recently been considering converting to Judaism… But I truly feel lost without having Catholicism in my life, as it’s always been a home to me…

Seeking,
Please do investigate our Jewish roots. But I would also suggest reading some works by authors who have converted from Judaism to Catholicism.
While I have not looked into this extensively, I have heard a couple of the these people describe Catholicism as “Judaism fulfilled”, and that those who convert from Jew to Catholic as being "fulfilled Jews.
The one person who’s name I recall is “Rosalind Moss” who appeared on EWTN many times and is a wonderful speaker. I hoped to find a book on her conversion etc, but the best I could come up with was an audio tape called “A Day of Grace”.
Actually this might be a good thing since she is a wonderful speaker and a joy ot listen to.
We don’t hear from her much these days though because she has started a religious order of nuns in St Louis Mo.

Hope this helps you

Peace
James