Faith Versus Works Quote from Other Thread

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Recently I read a thread that really spoke to me. The writer basically said something to the effect of, “I can show you I have faith through my works, but you try showing me your faith without doing any good works.” However, it was said much more eloquently.

I have spent the past half hour searching for this thread to no avail. I am hoping that either someone remembers the thread and can point me to it or the author sees this and reminds me what he/she said.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
 
It sounds like an (at least attempted) paraphrase of a verse in “The Epistle of James”:

“Indeed someone might say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.” (St. James 2:18)

from the Bible at the Vatican website:

vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__P11W.HTM
 
Faith without works is dead. Such must be agreed upon by all denominations imo, as James said so eloquently in his Epistle.

It is the belief however that works cannot save us, but Faith alone saves us. However, because we have Faith we will have works. How can one have Faith without works?

Just because I reject that my works save me does not mean that I do not have works. I work for God daily, I preach about Him, and I love Him. I give to charity and will continue to glorify His name to all. Such does not save me, but is commanded of me, so I do it.
 
LionHeart777 said:
It sounds like an (at least attempted) paraphrase of a verse in “The Epistle of James”:

“Indeed someone might say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.” (St. James 2:18)

from the Bible at the Vatican website:

vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__P11W.HTM
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It was definitely an attempt to paraphrase this argument. Thanks for the bible verse.
 
dronald said:
Faith without works is dead. Such must be agreed upon by all denominations imo, as James said so eloquently in his Epistle.

It is the belief however that works cannot save us, but Faith alone saves us. However, because we have Faith we will have works. How can one have Faith without works?

Just because I reject that my works save me does not mean that I do not have works. I work for God daily, I preach about Him, and I love Him. I give to charity and will continue to glorify His name to all. Such does not save me, but is commanded of me, so I do it.
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I appreciate that. I am definitely familar with the concept, but I am looking for that exact sentence/wording as it was a nice way to summarize the argument.
 
dronald said:
Faith without works is dead. Such must be agreed upon by all denominations imo, as James said so eloquently in his Epistle.

It is the belief however that works cannot save us, but Faith alone saves us. However, because we have Faith we will have works. How can one have Faith without works?

Just because I reject that my works save me does not mean that I do not have works. I work for God daily, I preach about Him, and I love Him. I give to charity and will continue to glorify His name to all. Such does not save me, but is commanded of me, so I do it.
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Hi dronald -

I’ve heard this response before, but I still have difficulty fully understanding this reasoning. I know much ink has been spilled by people more educated than me on what exactly the word Faith means. I know in Scripture it is used differently, at times meaning just a belief and other times encompassing more of a total response to God (I.e. “obedience of faith”). I would think the latter is what many folks mean by “saving faith” and I would dare say that I don’t have as much an issue with the idea of “saving faith” alone if it inherently includes grace, faith, and works. I would disagree though that the works, in this case, are non-meritorious. It is when faith, as a mere belief, alone is said to be all that saves. I believe this is what St. James is saying.

But I do have sincere questions: what value are works in your Protestant tradition? In other words, you stated that works don’t save, but are commanded, well in what way do they have value as commandments? Or are works valueless? Didn’t Jesus himself express an eternal value in doing works? Thanks and God Bless.
 
Bradys_Dad said:
But I do have sincere questions: what value are works in your Protestant tradition? In other words, you stated that works don’t save, but are commanded, well in what way do they have value as commandments? Or are works valueless? Didn’t Jesus himself express an eternal value in doing works? Thanks and God Bless.
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Works have much value in that it will bring forth God’s will. God commands us to work so when we work we are carrying out God’s will; if we refuse to do good works then we are not carrying out God’s will.

How can one say they have Faith and yet they do not do works? If one does not work then they clearly don’t have Faith in the One whom they work for. Take for example what Jesus said:

*Matthew 19:21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
*
This is Christ’s command not only to the rich man, but to all of us. However, the rich man could not do such a thing, can you?

Why is it that we say we have Faith, and yet we do not give away all of our possessions and follow God? Clearly God commands us to do such, but let’s be honest; the majority of us just do not have that much Faith. I believe the Apostles had that kind of Faith as they proclaimed they lacked nothing when they took no purse, bag or sandles. (Luke 22:35)

So if we really do have Faith, we would give up all we have, give it to the poor, take nothing with us and rely completely on God. We do not have that much Faith, but we do have enough Faith that we give to charity, rely on God’s spirit to help us proclaim the Gospel to others, etc. And with that will come works. Maybe not works as great as giving up everything and following Jesus, but certainly we will have works if we do have Faith.
 
Boulder257 said:
It was definitely an attempt to paraphrase this argument. Thanks for the bible verse.
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No problem! I didn’t mean the attempt part as an insult or anything of the sort, I hope it didn’t come off that way :o
 
dronald said:
Faith without works is dead. Such must be agreed upon by all denominations imo, as James said so eloquently in his Epistle.

It is the belief however that works cannot save us, but Faith alone saves us. However, because we have Faith we will have works. How can one have Faith without works?

Just because I reject that my works save me does not mean that I do not have works. I work for God daily, I preach about Him, and I love Him. I give to charity and will continue to glorify His name to all. Such does not save me, but is commanded of me, so I do it.
Click to expand...
Faith that doesn’t lead to love, a love which produces works by its very nature, cannot save us. And, as both Paul, in 1 Cor 13, and James, indirectly in James 2, affirm, faith doesn’t *necessarily * include or lead to love. The most succinct understanding of the gospel was penned by St John of the Cross:

"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."

IMO this ties together the entire message: the commands to love, the basis of judgment in Matt 25:31-46, the Parable of the Talents, the Sermon on the Mount, 1 Cor 13, James 2, Paul’s teachings on our need for faith and how it justifies, and all the admonitions for believers to remain turned to God, in communion with Christ, apart from whom we can do nothing, especially to love as He desires us to.
 
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