Fallen away Catholics marrying outside the Church

[Jeffgo]

Hello all,

I have a question. I know that a Catholic is obligated to marry in a Catholic ceremony, unless he/she gets special permission to do otherwise. If a Catholic marries in a non-Catholic ceremony without permission, the marriage is invalid.

I have also heard that this also applies to a fallen away Catholic, unless he or she has formally defected from the Church. My question is this: say someone was raised Catholic, but they simply stopped practicing their faith, and no longer consider themselves Catholic anymore. They didn’t send a letter to the bishop or anything, they just stopped practice of the faith. If this person marries outside the Church, would the marriage be considered valid?

If you could provide links to official sources in your answer, it would really help (ie: stuff from the USCCB or the Vatican, a reliable commentary on Canon Law, etc).

Thanks!

 

[Rence]

No, the marriage would not be considered valid by the Church. The Church doesn’t recognize civil marriage for Catholics, even if they have fallen away. The Church expects them to come back into communion with the Church and have their marriage validated.

And actually, even if the person formally defected from the Church, they are still held to canon law anyway. Not that such a person would recognize the Church’s authority, since they would have formally left. But the Church teaches this.

 

[kitkatty]

Rence is correct. l only add my own observation that sometimes when the fallen away Catholics want to come back and make things right with the Church, they have sometimes put obstacles in their path that didn`t have to be there if they had only married according to the Church as they should have. An indifferent spouse may not want to go through the required steps to have the marriage validated in the Catholic Church. If there is divorce in the history of either spouse, then annullments need to be obtained before he Church can validate the marriage.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Why need a link when you have many Catholic reverts on here that know first handed what you are saying doesn’t work.

If you attempt to defect, the Church first must accept your letter of defection. It’s not automatic as I thought many years ago. It protects the Catholic from making a grave error later on when, hopefully, they discover the error they made. I did such a thing. I also had to have my marriage convalidated.

I was more Protestant than Catholic when I left. That’s one of the reasons I left. I thought the Church had been lying for ever and a day. Nothing, it seemed, that I learned turned out to be true. That’s because so many people during my youth were resenting Catholics. Many of them are still living, purposefully it appears to me, in their ignorance. I suspect that many priests and bishops during their time were not as orthodox as we find today. I attest to that because I personally knew many “gay” seminarians, deacons and priests. Most, are no longer seeking or active clergy…

FYI: i was baptized Catholic secretly by my father, against my mother’s wishes. I was not raised Catholic until I moved to live with my father later on. Most of my family are non-Catholic Christians.

 

[Phemie]

Hello all,

I have a question. I know that a Catholic is obligated to marry in a Catholic ceremony, unless he/she gets special permission to do otherwise. If a Catholic marries in a non-Catholic ceremony without permission, the marriage is invalid.

**I have also heard that this also applies to a fallen away Catholic, unless he or she has formally defected from the Church. **

Thanks!

While that had been the case, Canon Law was changed in the last year or so. Now, even formal defection doesn’t release one from the obligation to marry according to canonical form. This is the relevant canon from the 1983 Code of Canon Law:

Can. 1117 The form established above must be observed if at least one of the parties contracting marriage was baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it and has not defected from it by a formal act, without prejudice to the prescripts of ⇒ can. 1127,

In his Apostolic Letter “Motu Proprio” – “Omnium in Mentum” of October 2009, Pope Benedict XVI ordered these changes:

Therefore I decree that in the same *Code *the following words are to be eliminated: “and has not left it by a formal act” (can. 1117); “and has not left it by means of a formal act” (can. 1086 § 1); “and has not left it by a formal act” (can. 1124).

The difference between ‘not left it’ and ‘not defected from it’ is just a variation in the English translation from the Latin.

The other two canons, 1086 & 1124, deal with marriages between a Catholic & a non-baptized person (disparity of worship) and between a Catholic & a baptized non-Catholic (mixed-marriage) respectively.

 

[Journey322]

I don’t know the answer to the OP’s question but I have one of my own that is sort of related to it: Let’s say someone who has yet to go through RCIA wants to get married before RCIA will be completed. Will the church agree to this or must the couple wait until both are confirmed by the church?

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Jeffgo,

To be more clear about your question.

Your friends marriage would not be valid. I talked to Fr. Vincent Serpa on this forum, via phone call about this many years ago. I also spoke to my priests and several others about the same issue. Your friends marriage will not be considered valid if he/she marries outside of the Church without all of the appropriate dispensations, which is very unlikely to be granted. It’s really that simple.

 

[Seatuck]

I don’t know the answer to the OP’s question but I have one of my own that is sort of related to it: Let’s say someone who has yet to go through RCIA wants to get married before RCIA will be completed. Will the church agree to this or must the couple wait until both are confirmed by the church?

Are we talking about 2 non Catholics? Non Catholics are not bound by Canon Law Catholics are . So unless, one of the couple is Catholic there is no problem getting married outside of the church.
If you are talking about a baptized Catholic who needs to be confirmed that is another story. Catholics are required to be confirmed before undertaking the additional Sacrament of Matrimony if they can do so without hardship. The Priest can determine which is the case.

 

[quiet52]

I don’t know the answer to the OP’s question but I have one of my own that is sort of related to it: Let’s say someone who has yet to go through RCIA wants to get married before RCIA will be completed. Will the church agree to this or must the couple wait until both are confirmed by the church?

In the Catholic Church, Matrimony is one of the seven sacraments. The entry sacrament is Baptism. So, no, if you’re not yet baptized, you cannot marry in the Church without first being baptized.

If you and your fiance are validly baptized in a Christian denomination, engaged, and in RCIA, you need to meet with your pastor or his delegate concerning your marriage preparation. Are both you and your fiance free to marry? If either one of you have been married before, that person needs to petition for nullity. It’s not always granted, because the diocesan Tribunal needs to have evidence that there are grounds for nullity.

If you are engaged I recommend that you speak to your pastor immediately. You would need to adequately prepare for the sacrament of marriage. Also, you need to know that you cannot be received into full communion of the Catholic Church if you marry and it’s not a valid marriage (due to prior marriage). If you and your fiance are non-Catholic and there are no impediments to marriage in the eyes of the Catholic Church (e.g., not previously married), then you can marry, but not in the Catholic Church, prior to your being received into the Church. When both you and your fiance are baptized, or received into full communion, your marriage would then become sacramental (automatically). I hope that you would want the marriage preparation offered by the Catholic Church, so that you fully understand what it means.

 

[Mamanurse]

Hello all,

I have a question. I know that a Catholic is obligated to marry in a Catholic ceremony, unless he/she gets special permission to do otherwise. If a Catholic marries in a non-Catholic ceremony without permission, the marriage is invalid.

I have also heard that this also applies to a fallen away Catholic, unless he or she has formally defected from the Church. My question is this: say someone was raised Catholic, but they simply stopped practicing their faith, and no longer consider themselves Catholic anymore. They didn’t send a letter to the bishop or anything, they just stopped practice of the faith. If this person marries outside the Church, would the marriage be considered valid?

If you could provide links to official sources in your answer, it would really help (ie: stuff from the USCCB or the Vatican, a reliable commentary on Canon Law, etc).

Thanks!

I don’t have any quotes for you, but I do have personal experience on that issue! I fell away from my faith and got married outside the church to a non-catholic. My marriage was invalid in the Church’s eyes. When I returned to the church last year, my Dh and I had to get our marriage convalidated by the CC. I am now able to practice and participate fully with the church.

 

[1ke]

I have also heard that this also applies to a fallen away Catholic, unless he or she has formally defected from the Church.

Yes, it also applies to “fallen away Catholics” and there is no longer a provision for a Catholic who “formally defects.” This was removed from canon law via the Pope’s Motu Proprio Omnium in Mentem in Oct 2009.

My question is this: say someone was raised Catholic, but they simply stopped practicing their faith, and no longer consider themselves Catholic anymore. They didn’t send a letter to the bishop or anything, they just stopped practice of the faith. If this person marries outside the Church, would the marriage be considered valid?

No. The marriage is invalid.

If you could provide links to official sources in your answer, it would really help (ie: stuff from the USCCB or the Vatican, a reliable commentary on Canon Law, etc).

Canon Law.

Can. 11 Merely ecclesiastical laws bind those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it, possess the efficient use of reason, and, unless the law expressly provides otherwise, have completed seven years of age.

Can. 1059 Even if only one party is Catholic, the marriage of Catholics is governed not only by divine law but also by canon law, without prejudice to the competence of civil authority concerning the merely civil effects of the same marriage.

Can. 1108 §1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. ⇒ 144, ⇒ 1112, §1, ⇒ 1116, and ⇒ 1127, §§1-2.

 

[rick43235]

My question is this: say someone was raised Catholic, but they simply stopped practicing their faith, and no longer consider themselves Catholic anymore. They didn’t send a letter to the bishop or anything, they just stopped practice of the faith. If this person marries outside the Church, would the marriage be considered valid

Your friends marriage would not be valid. I talked to Fr. Vincent Serpa on this forum, via phone call about this many years ago. I also spoke to my priests and several others about the same issue. Your friends marriage will not be considered valid if he/she marries outside of the Church without all of the appropriate dispensations, which is very unlikely to be granted. It’s really that simple.

Actually, it’s even simpler than that. Since the OP’s friend is no longer a practicing Catholic and presumably has no interest in how the Church regards his/her marriage, the whole valid/invalid question simply doesn’t matter/

 

[1ke]

Actually, it’s even simpler than that. Since the OP’s friend is no longer a practicing Catholic and presumably has no interest in how the Church regards his/her marriage, the whole valid/invalid question simply doesn’t matter/

Of course it matters.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Of course it matters.

Agreed.

 

[rick43235]

Of course it matters.

To whom does it matter? To the person getting married who may have been baptized as an infant, but who in his/her adulthood has decided not to practice Catholicism? Nope. Doesn’t matter to them.

To the Church? I understand the reasoning behind the “Once Catholic Always Catholic” line of thought, but the Church has probably lost track of this person long ago. I doubt if there are any Church officials who care.

To God? Do you really, REALLY think there is a god up there who is going to condemn someone who was baptized Catholic to eternal damnation just because they got married in a church that doesn’t say “Catholic” on the front door? While I understand that you are sincere in your beliefs, in all honesty, this just makes no sense to me.

 

[1ke]

To God? Do you really, REALLY think there is a god up there who is going to condemn someone who was baptized Catholic to eternal damnation just because they got married in a church that doesn’t say “Catholic” on the front door? While I understand that you are sincere in your beliefs, in all honesty, this just makes no sense to me.

Yes, God the author of life and the author of marriage.

Everyone is responsible for what they know and what they do with it. Those who thwart the authority placed over them by God out of ignorance may have less or no culpability as opposed to those who do so knowingly. This is part and parcel of their defection from the faith.

I don’t presume to know the disposition of souls, including my own.

But, yes, our obedience does matter to God.

 

[OraLabora]

An indifferent spouse may not want to go through the required steps to have the marriage validated in the Catholic Church.

In that case the practicing Catholic spouse can ask for a radical sanation, provided there are no other impediments to marriage (i.e. divorce).

 

[kitkatty]

It very much matters if the fallen away Catholic at some point realizes the necessity of returning to the practice of their faith. It does happen!

 

[OraLabora]

To God? Do you really, REALLY think there is a god up there who is going to condemn someone who was baptized Catholic to eternal damnation just because they got married in a church that doesn’t say “Catholic” on the front door? While I understand that you are sincere in your beliefs, in all honesty, this just makes no sense to me.

We know that in addition to perfect Justice, God also be perfectly merciful. Therefore nobody on this Earth can condemn anyone to eternal damnation. That is God’s province and God’s alone. The reasons for a person disobeying the Church are between that person and God. The degree of justice and mercy that God will give at judgment time will reflect the true state of the penitent’s soul, including any in-born weaknesses, family necessities, overwhelming obstacles and psychological issues that may mitigate culpability.

The Church on the other hand has the authority and mandate to administer the Sacraments and attempt to instill some social order into Catholic life. She can and does determine the conditions under which one can receive the Sacraments, and under which conditions she can deny them.

 

[Vico]

While that had been the case, Canon Law was changed in the last year or so. Now, even formal defection doesn’t release one from the obligation to marry according to canonical form. This is the relevant canon from the 1983 Code of Canon Law:
In his Apostolic Letter “Motu Proprio” – “Omnium in Mentum” of October 2009, Pope Benedict XVI ordered these changes:
The difference between ‘not left it’ and ‘not defected from it’ is just a variation in the English translation from the Latin.

The other two canons, 1086 & 1124, deal with marriages between a Catholic & a non-baptized person (disparity of worship) and between a Catholic & a baptized non-Catholic (mixed-marriage) respectively.

But if a Catholic that formally defected according to the proper process, and married, between the effective date of the 1983 Canon Law up until the revision was effective ~ Dec 21, 2010, then it could be valid.