Fanaticism

[Marc_Hanna]

Just looking for some thought provoking discussion;

What qualifies some one as a fanatic? I’m sure many people think of me as a “religious fanatic” because I spend a lot of time at church, I get involved in church, when I’m not a church I read about the church, I pray in the morning before I start my day, I thank God before I eat, I have volumes on the church fathers, I have more than 15 bibles . . . and so on.

Does this qualify me as a fanatic?

I don’t think so. . . and this is because I spend almost an equal amount of time learning and understanding what others believe, and listening to their arguments.

Is being passionate about something synonymous with being fanatical?

In my opinion, fanaticism is being passionate about something while also foresaking objectivity. Under this definition, i think atheists tend to be more fanatical than Christians.

What do you guys thinks?

 

[FightingFat]

I wonder if fanaticism begins when you stop caring about other people’s opinions? What I mean is when you think it is OK to steamroller over other people’s beliefs and feelings. Our Father in Heaven gave us free will, after all. There can be no coercion in religion!

 

[Marc_Hanna]

I think that parallels what I said about forsaking objectivity but I think it is a more extreme case. I personally don’t think fanatics necessarily have to be as mean as your post suggests.

 

[MerryAtheist]

In my opinion, fanaticism is being passionate about something while also foresaking objectivity. Under this definition, i think atheists tend to be more fanatical than Christians.

I’m struggling to see where my passions have led me to forsake objectivity.

First off, what passions are we talking about here? Baseball? Pizza? As far as I can tell, I have not forsaken objectivity with regard to either. I can tell a stinker baseball team (Mariners), and I know when a pizza is bad (most Take N Bakes are disease factories).

I guess you need to inform me as to what that “something” is that I am passionate about, and show me how I have forsaken objectivity.

Also, as a sidebar, it might be nice to explain exactly how this makes atheists more fanatical than Christians, or any other believers, for that matter.

 

[Equites_Christi]

I believe fanaticism is when someone is over zealous and obsessed over a subject and makes it very public.

 

[Marc_Hanna]

I didn’t say every athiest was fanatical, or even that athiests in general are fanatical; I said, I think they tend to be more fanatical than christians. And that would be in direct referance to their atheism, not their views on baseball or pizza.

I find few people declare that they are true athiests, and most I have encountered have no real basis for their belief; they simply “know” that there is no God. I’m not saying that this is true in general, but rather just in my experience.

 

[MerryAtheist]

I didn’t say every athiest was fanatical, or even that athiests in general are fanatical; I said, I think they tend to be more fanatical than christians. And that would be in direct referance to their atheism, not their views on baseball or pizza.

I find few people declare that they are true athiests, and most I have encountered have no real basis for their belief; they simply “know” that there is no God. I’m not saying that this is true in general, but rather just in my experience.

Obviously, if you define atheism as a belief, you will be hard pressed to find many “true atheists”. But for most of us (atheists, that is), atheism is a negation of belief, not a positive assertion. I can therefore say that I am an atheist because I have no belief in God, not because I believe there is no God.

Everyone must make up their own minds, of course. Some people need little in the way of convincing to believe in God, others need much more. The same holds true for non-belief, I suspect. Chances are some of the atheists you have encountered who “simply know” there is no God needed little convincing to arrive at that conclusion. Others (myself perhaps) have searched for a long time and arrived at the conclusion that belief is unwarranted based on (dare I say) an objective consideration of the evidence available to them.

Does my lack of belief make me fanatical? I don’t think so. Nor is it true that I have forsaken objectivity, though I admit that true objectivity is probably unattainable to anyone, believer or not.

So, if your experience has led you to the conclusion that atheists tend to be more fanatical than believers, I am happy to offer myself as an imperfect antidote to that notion.

Unfanatically yours,
MerryAtheist

PS. keep the “e” before the “i” in atheist to avoid praising anyone as the “Athi-est” of all.

 

[Swan]

Fanaticism seems to involve some sort of cognitive rigidity - a belief in one’s position that negates any belief, not just to the contrary, but that even hints at disagreement. There also seems to be a disconnect from reason. The object of the fanaticism “rule” the mind, so to speak. These qualities can, depending on the subject, make fanatics very, very dangerous. Think of the witch hunters, the religious wars, racists - KKK, Nazi - all fanatics. The different between these folks and, say, a Star Wars fanatic, is that the object of their fanaticism is considered to be overarching in its importants (religion, racial purity). These are just a few examples, of course, ones that readily come to mind.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Just looking for some thought provoking discussion;

What qualifies some one as a fanatic? I’m sure many people think of me as a “religious fanatic” because I spend a lot of time at church, I get involved in church, when I’m not a church I read about the church, I pray in the morning before I start my day, I thank God before I eat, I have volumes on the church fathers, I have more than 15 bibles . . . and so on.

Does this qualify me as a fanatic?

I don’t think so. . . and this is because I spend almost an equal amount of time learning and understanding what others believe, and listening to their arguments.

Is being passionate about something synonymous with being fanatical?

In my opinion, fanaticism is being passionate about something while also foresaking objectivity. Under this definition, i think atheists tend to be more fanatical than Christians.

What do you guys thinks?

the word is almost always a pejorative, usually ascribed to fundamentalism.

just an implication that complete faith in ones G-d is somehow less desirable than faith in another belief.

its an easy way to label those who don’t agree with you as unreasonable.

that way one doesn’t have to reason with the worshiper, one can just avoid the argument by saying that the person is a fanatic, as though that now excuses the accuser of needing evidence to support ones assertion.

its a cheap shot at the faithful, and a low blow

 

[Marc_Hanna]

I think we tend to use the word enthusiast synonymously with fanatic, especially in the Star Wars example. But clearly that can evolve into fanaticism if one were to start stalking the actors who played in the movies.

. . . and MerryAthEIst, please don’t take my coments as a personal attack on you, like I said at the start of this thread, I’m just looking for a little thought provoking discussion.

Many people are not believers in the God, but they do not necessarily rule out the possibility of A god. These are not athEIsts. These are the people I refer to as, “not true atheists.”

 

[Marc_Hanna]

the word is almost always a pejorative, usually ascribed to fundamentalism.

just an implication that complete faith in ones G-d is somehow less desirable than faith in another belief.

its an easy way to label those who don’t agree with you as unreasonable.

that way one doesn’t have to reason with the worshiper, one can just avoid the argument by saying that the person is a fanatic, as though that now excuses the accuser of needing evidence to support ones assertion.

its a cheap shot at the faithful, and a low blow

Agreed. This is quite common.

 

[notsmart]

My gut tells me a fanatic is one who lets things suffer in order to feed for lack of a better word, addiction. I could be guilty of this right now.

 

[Starwynd]

How the heck can atheist be more “fanatical” than Christians when Christians outnumber atheists twenty to one?

That’s just silly.

All groups have their extremists and fanatics.

 

[MerryAtheist]

. . . and MerryAthEIst, please don’t take my coments as a personal attack on you, like I said at the start of this thread, I’m just looking for a little thought provoking discussion.

No offense taken at all. I didn’t consider it an attack, but an opportunity to explain my point of view.

Many people are not believers in the God, but they do not necessarily rule out the possibility of A god. These are not athEIsts. These are the people I refer to as, “not true atheists.”

Tom-ay-to / tom-ah-to.

I’ve heard the terms “weak atheist” and “strong atheist” used in the same manner. I usually find myself in the former camp, therefore I prefer the term “agnostic atheist” to avoid any tacit invitation to kick sand in my face.

 

[Marc_Hanna]

How the heck can atheist be more “fanatical” than Christians when Christians outnumber atheists twenty to one?

That’s just silly.

All groups have their extremists and fanatics.

I don’t want to even comment on the numbers because I haven’t any, but if one group were to have a higher percentage of any given characteristic as compared to its own population than another group; then regardless of the numbers the former would still tend to have that characteristic more than the latter.

For example:
If there a 20 million dogs in the world and only 5 million cats, if 5 million of those dogs are black and 4 million of the cats are black, then even though the dogs outnumber the cats 4 to 1, the cats still have a greater likelihood of being black than the dogs do.

 

[Marc_Hanna]

No offense taken at all. I didn’t consider it an attack, but an opportunity to explain my point of view.

Tom-ay-to / tom-ah-to.

I’ve heard the terms “weak atheist” and “strong atheist” used in the same manner. I usually find myself in the former camp, therefore I prefer the term “agnostic atheist” to avoid any tacit invitation to kick sand in my face.

Atheists would start to borderline on fanatical when they no longer accept any arguement from a christian, regardless of topic, because they know that person to be a christian, and therefore irrational. This I’m sure is not central to the scientific community but has certainly got the most press. There have been scientists that complained that when they “came out of the closet” as being christians, they could no longer get their papers published. This could suggest then, that the scientific community has the greatest tendancy toward atheist fanaticism.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Atheists would start to borderline on fanatical when they no longer accept any arguement from a christian, regardless of topic, because they know that person to be a christian, and therefore irrational. This I’m sure is not central to the scientific community but has certainly got the most press. There have been scientists that complained that when they “came out of the closet” as being christians, they could no longer get their papers published. This could suggest then, that the scientific community has the greatest tendancy toward atheist fanaticism.

one cannot be a Christian, and not a fanatic, that is called being lukewarm. and He says He will spit you out.

you are entirely on G-ds side, or you are not. that is the struggle of faith, to eliminate your will, in order to reflect as perfectly as possible G-ds will. that requires fanatacism almost by definition

 

[MerryAtheist]

Atheists would start to borderline on fanatical when they no longer accept any arguement from a christian, regardless of topic, because they know that person to be a christian, and therefore irrational.

That indeed would be wrong.

If my electrician warns me not to touch the black wire because it’s full of electrical current, I should not stop to take into account his religious affiliations.

If, on the other hand, my electrician warns me not to touch the black wire because God commands it, it may be time to find a new electrician.

This I’m sure is not central to the scientific community but has certainly got the most press. There have been scientists that complained that when they “came out of the closet” as being christians, they could no longer get their papers published. This could suggest then, that the scientific community has the greatest tendancy toward atheist fanaticism.

I suspect that most scientists care very little about the religious affiliations of their peers, as long as the science they do is real science. However, like my electrician, if a scientist wanders off the reservation and starts incorporating her non-falsifiable beliefs into her work, her lack of professional advancement will be justified.

 

[Marc_Hanna]

If my electrician warns me not to touch the black wire because it’s full of electrical current, I should not stop to take into account his religious affiliations.

QUOTE]

I agree, yet the scientific community has been known to do this.

 

[The_Barbarian]

**If my electrician warns me not to touch the black wire because it’s full of electrical current, I should not stop to take into account his religious affiliations.
**

I agree, yet the scientific community has been known to do this.

Do you have some specific instance? Far as I can see, no one complained about Theodosius Dobzhansky, Francisco Ayala, and many other Christians who do science.

My favorite definition of “fanatic” is"

“A person who wants to do what he knows God would do, if He had all the facts.”