Fantasizing about the Amish

[deb1]

ISometimes the reverse happens – I mentored a young man who went to nursing school as a second career. He had worked for a few years as an airplane mechanic, and got tired of the extreme temperatures, hard labor, and being so dirty that he could never get himself fully clean. So he joined the growing ranks of men in nursing, and a fine nurse he is! But if he were Amish and didn’t like farming, carpentry, or whatever, tough luck; there would be no switching to the kitchen allowed.

My FIL was a nurse, he is now retired. I wonder if it was more difficult to be a male nurse in the 60’s when he trained?

I think that more traditional jobs that are done without modern machinery probably take skills that would be developed over several years. So, a young woman would grow up knowing how to sew, cook etc and a young man, would learn carpentry and farming skills. It doesn’t mean that an occasional girl or boy couldn’t or wouldn’t be better suited for the opposite gender’s traditional job, just that it would be harder to decide once you are an adult that you want to suddenly learn the necessary skills.

I think that living without technology is very admirable, its just not something that I want to do. I like having a washing machine and using a modern stove, thank you very much.

 

[CarrieH]

My FIL was a nurse, he is now retired. I wonder if it was more difficult to be a male nurse in the 60’s when he trained?

I’m sure it was. Sex-role stereotyping was a lot stronger in the '60’s. Even today, with 6% of the RN population being male, some people have weird ideas about men who go into nursing, unless it’s in a military or religious context (like the Alexian Brothers, who have been tending the sick since the Middle Ages). I don’t know if it is just part of the male psyche or for social reasons, or both, but it seems that most of the male RNs I know choose to work “where the action is:” in the ER, ICU, surgery, and psych wards. And we are so glad to have them with us, esp. when a patient (or visitor, nowadays) starts to escalate and we might need a show of force before things get out of hand.

I have a friend who hates it when you call him a “male nurse.” He says, “I am a **registered **nurse who happens to be a man, dammit!”

 

[CarrieH]

I think that the most physically strong member of a married couple should do the majority of the heavy labor. If that happens to be your wife, then more power to her.

That sort of division of labor works in our modern society, but in a community such as the Amish, neighbors often have to work together and the mixing of the genders would be a problem. My father grew up on a farm in the 1920’s and '30’s, and tells of how the people on the neighboring farms would team up for some of the really big jobs and go from one farm to the next in order to get everyone’s business taken care of. It would be awfully hard for a woman in such a society to do anything outside of the traditional female role once she married and had children. She would either have to bring her babies along so she could breastfeed them throughout the day, or leave them with a wet-nurse, and you know that wouldn’t happen in such a culture. There is no sending them off to day-care with a case of Similac!

I remember Dad telling about plowing with horses, in the same manner that the Amish do. One time during the Great Depression, their horses caught some sort of eye disease and all of the horses went blind. They couldn’t just replace them, so Dad had to drive them nonstop rather than just guiding them along. If anyone ever had any romantic notions about life without modern conveniences, they should spend a day in that scenario. I think that is part of why Dad has lived to be so old – they toughened him up early in life! And you don’t even want to know about the day each year when they castrated the hogs! :bigyikes:

 

[Dragoro]

Actually, speaking of religious life and marriage…

I have a good friend who is married. She was consecrated religious, Legionnaires of Christ. I don’t know how exactly it works; but in the end they told her they thought marriage was her vocation So it seems it is quite possible to be consecrated religious, for a while, then get married. Wish I knew the details. Check with the legionairres.

As far as people smelling, realize that odor has been the natural odor of mankind for about nineteen and one-half centuries, plus all the centuries BC. I spent a couple of months in the less modern areas of Russia. The smell was, at first, overwhelming; but I got used to it pretty quick. THey aren’t quite as sqeamish as us Americans in a lot of ways–and they’ll remind you of that too!.

19 and one half centuries? Were still in the 1850’s ?

 

[consumedconvert]

19 and one half centuries? Were still in the 1850’s ?

Whoa, quick! Somebody get a calender! Are you telling me it’s NOT 1850???

 

[Ridgerunner]

It would never work for me. I would much rather change a tire than trim a horse’s hoofs. Cars don’t kick, bite or relieve themselves when you change a tire.

 

[deb1]

That sort of division of labor works in our modern society, but in a community such as the Amish, neighbors often have to work together and the mixing of the genders would be a problem. My father grew up on a farm in the 1920’s and '30’s, and tells of how the people on the neighboring farms would team up for some of the really big jobs and go from one farm to the next in order to get everyone’s business taken care of. It would be awfully hard for a woman in such a society to do anything outside of the traditional female role once she married and had children. She would either have to bring her babies along so she could breastfeed them throughout the day, or leave them with a wet-nurse, and you know that wouldn’t happen in such a culture. There is no sending them off to day-care with a case of Similac!

I

I agree with you.

 

[consumedconvert]

It would never work for me. I would much rather change a tire than trim a horse’s hoofs. Cars don’t kick, bite or relieve themselves when you change a tire.

True, but they get great mileage, and you don’t have to import hay from Saudi Arabia

 

[Ridgerunner]

True, but they get great mileage, and you don’t have to import hay from Saudi Arabia

Agreed. But neither do cars consume fuel when they’re just loafing around doing nothing.

 

[consumedconvert]

Agreed. But neither do cars consume fuel when they’re just loafing around doing nothing.

Granted. And you don’t have to shovel the exhaust.

 

[nan]

"I am particular impressed by how they got the government to leave them alone from all their social programs by showing that they can take care of their own. "
The original poster’s thought intrigues me. I haven’t read all the comments, so I don’t know if this part of the post has been discussed. I work for a Catholic hospital and my son and one daughter attended a Catholic college. I believe our Catholic institutions have “sold out” a good share of our heritage beliefs in order to qualify for government aid. Catholics took care of all, no matter what their belief systems, in years past, with compassion and sound ethics. Now,as the good nuns who founded our hospital are dying out, they are being replaced by corporate “suits”. We only have a few obstetricians delivering at our hospital these days because we don’t do abortions or prescribe birth control. We’re not going to last that way much longer I’ll bet. Not sure where I’m going with this except that maybe we need to be more self-sufficient as Catholics - spurn the social programs of the “nanny-state” and stay true to our religious principles ,even at the risk of the closings of our hospitals, colleges and social welfare programs (such as Catholic Charities).

 

[Ridgerunner]

"I am particular impressed by how they got the government to leave them alone from all their social programs by showing that they can take care of their own. "
The original poster’s thought intrigues me. I haven’t read all the comments, so I don’t know if this part of the post has been discussed. I work for a Catholic hospital and my son and one daughter attended a Catholic college. I believe our Catholic institutions have “sold out” a good share of our heritage beliefs in order to qualify for government aid. Catholics took care of all, no matter what their belief systems, in years past, with compassion and sound ethics. Now,as the good nuns who founded our hospital are dying out, they are being replaced by corporate “suits”. We only have a few obstetricians delivering at our hospital these days because we don’t do abortions or prescribe birth control. We’re not going to last that way much longer I’ll bet. Not sure where I’m going with this except that maybe we need to be more self-sufficient as Catholics - spurn the social programs of the “nanny-state” and stay true to our religious principles ,even at the risk of the closings of our hospitals, colleges and social welfare programs (such as Catholic Charities).

Those orders of nuns are being turned into private foundations with the money they received from selling off the assets. Right now they support the few remaining nuns in those orders. After that, I shudder to think what those private foundations will be.

I think the Church in the U.S. is going to have to “start over” when it comes to institutions. I hate that, but I think it’s the truth.

 

[JesuXPIPassio]

So, part II of my should I becoming a US citizen rant.

While I believe that the Catholic Church is the church founded by Christ, I am not all that impressed with my day to day experience as a catholic. And lately, I have day dreaming about the Amish. I am particular impressed by how they got the government to leave them alone from all their social programs by showing that they can take care of their own.

So, I am planning a little retreat with an Amish community. I hope to come back, but it might be difficult.

No point. Just sharing.

You know what’s funny, I also admired the Amish people. I saw their hard work as something gratifying, living as a child of the soil. I still do.

As Catholic, however, the problem we should not overlook is that Amish doctrines do not conform to ours. Like, they’re anabaptists, which means they permit second baptisms. The majority of Christians in the world (Catholics and Orthodox greatly outnumber protestants) do not permit such a thing. If I’m not mistaken, it was decided by a Council of the whole Church many centuries ago. Having re-baptisms has no basis in the historical context of Christianity.

And that’s just one of the theological problems of the Amish.

You can be Catholic and have all of those Amish goodies such as hard work and modesty. That’s what monasteries have been doing long before the Amish folk have existed.

If you are a Catholic, I’d suggest that you look into Catholic religious communities, groups of monks and nuns, where you could live through work and prayer. If that doesn’t work, nothing’s stopping you from founding your own religious community. Lots of great saints have done it.

One community you might want to look at is the Carthusians. If you like simple, harsh living, the Carthusians are

Or the Benedictines. Their motto is Ora et Labora (Prayer and Work), which is not unlike the Amish lifestyle. Some Benedictine communities may be somewhat lax; some communities much stricter. It won’t be easy to find which one you like, but you’ll be so happy after you do.

And, no, going into a monastery doesn’t necessairly mean that you become a monk. The Carthusians, for example, are mostly composed of lay brothers who just live and work to help support the monasteries. You can try to find another religious community that would take you in as a visitor making a retreat.

With regard to your day-to-day Catholic life, I admire you for not finding it gratifying. Catholicism around here can have a difficult time piercing through society, so in the end, what you get is a very watered-down form of it. But, know that the Church truly is universal, with many different forms. You understandably don’t like the form you have; go find another form. Try a religious order. Try missionary work. Try Opus Dei. Don’t believe, as so many Catholics in this society have come to believe, that the Church is always and everywhere the same mundane, lukewarm, watered-down abomination you may see in your particular area. There are so many options out there!

 

[Brendan]

True, but they get great mileage, and you don’t have to import hay from Saudi Arabia

In the 1920’s as the car was becoming more popular, it was heralded as an end to pollution in the cities.

Of course, the common pollutant was horse manure in the streets. On hot summer days, it dried and was pounded into dust, blowing everywhere.

Not exactly the healthiest environment

 

[FindTruth7]

Thing is, they won’t notice eachothers’ smell, and they probably think that we all smell of all the weird chemicals we eat and put on our bodies.

I remember seeing an American town that they covered in the news over here during the Pope’s visit to the USA, which was a Catholic version of an Amish-like community. I don’t think they were anti-technology like the Amish, but a bunch of families had gone there to live a separated life which revolved around Catholic piety and traditional values. Not sure what it was called, but it looked like a fairly new innovation.

The Amish are not anti-tecnology, they just prefer to change at their own pace and not get swept away by fast-pace modern life.

 

[stanmaxkolbe]

The only problem I have with them is that in a national emergency they are exempt from military service.

When I was growing up many a young man including my brother were drafted and sent to Vietnam why the Amish are exempt from the draft and my brother wasn’t I don’t know?

 

[Ruthie]

They are exempt from the draft because they are officially listed as conscientious objectors. This means their doctrine dictates that they cannot serve. They are not the only faith so listed.

I may be a conservative, but I am glad that our military is now all volunteer.

Ruthie