Fast and abstinence question

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JeanHeredia

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Hi all,
I have been wondering for quite some time now whether or not chicken or beef broth is acceptable for days of abstinence during lent. I had thought I had read that it was permitted but can’t recall where I had seen that.
Thanks!
Jeannie
 
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JeanHeredia:
Hi all,
I have been wondering for quite some time now whether or not chicken or beef broth is acceptable for days of abstinence during lent. I had thought I had read that it was permitted but can’t recall where I had seen that.
Thanks!
Jeannie
To my knowledge, you have to abstain from meat on fridays (chicken, beef, etc… Fish is ok though) during lent. Also Ash Wednesday and Good Friday you have to Fast and Abstain from meat. But I think during the days of saturday - thursday are ok to have meat on. But i’m not 100% sure I’m correct.
 
I have heard that even broth aujus gravy if it is from stock of meat it is like eating meat atleast that was what I am told. Again ask your priest he would know. But if it is made from meat then it is treated as meat even gravy. that was what I been taught. and it is a safe bet. I am so terrible when it comes to lent I forget that it is Friday, but this Lent by the grace of God I will fast from meat. God bless Tom
 
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JeanHeredia:
Hi all,
I have been wondering for quite some time now whether or not chicken or beef broth is acceptable for days of abstinence during lent.
the guidelines for this diocese are printed in today’s bulletin. broth or gravy made from meat are permitted.
 
I have heard both ways for broths. If it is something you are cooking with for a flavoring then go to your local health food store (Wild Oats, Sunflower, etc.) and look for the “vegetarian” broth mixes. There is no animal product in these but they give you a good flavor. Sadly, I can no longer use these to season my dishes as all boullions and broths have one or more of the things we are allergic to in my family (onions, MSG to be most specific and some even add tomato powder!)

Switch to using Worcestershire sauce in your dishes and you will get a nice but different flavor.

Brenda V.
 
I would just err on the side of caution and stay away from anything with meat in it altogether, including gravies.

What about cows milk? Is that permissable?
 
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Mike_D30:
I What about cows milk? Is that permissable?
the same guidelines say dairy products and eggs are permissible. Most of us are regular church goers, I am sure these guidelines will be in parish bulletins this weekend.
 
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Mike_D30:
I would just err on the side of caution and stay away from anything with meat in it altogether, including gravies. What about cows milk? Is that permissable?
Annie was correct the rules as to what constitutes abstaining from meat changed with one of the latest revisions of Canon Law. Thus broths made from chicken, beef, pork, turkey etc. are permitted, Pork and Beans from a can would be permitted because the meat content is negligible. The law used to apply to meat and products made from meat like broth etc. I don’t really remember if lard was considered a product from meat or not.

Personal comment is that I far as I am concerned the only real penance from having to abstain from meat is the higher cost per pound for the seafood or fancy cheese. The variety of fish and cheese available today makes it a pleasure to abstain. Its a regulation that has passed its time of usefulness in the United States. Even chili made with tofu or beans alone is tasty and filling. My mother always made that cassarole with tuna, mushroom soup, and noodles. That was penance.
 
"Abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, milk products or condiments made of animal fat.

According to Father John Huels in The Pastoral Companion (Franciscan Herald Press), abstinence does not include meat juices and liquid foods made from meat. Thus, such foods as chicken broth, consomme, soups cooked or flavored with meat, meat gravies or sauces, as well as seasonings or condiments made from animal fat are not forbidden. So it is permissible to use margarine and lard. "

americancatholic.org/Features/Lent/faqle9902.asp
 
Just some references and reasons to season this before toddling off into Lent.

Lard is not flesh so it is not considered a meat product according to the classical canonists.

The piece of stuff in the beans is generally viewed as seasoning. Some of the commentaries did note that the white stripes were fat, but the dark ones were meat though.

Canon 1250 of the former code (1917) stated that the law of abstinence prohibited meat (carno) and soup or broth (ius) made from meat, but not however of eggs, milks, and any sort of condiment derived from animal fat.

However Pope Paul VI’s apostolic constitution of 1966, Paenitemini (III:1) revised the law of abstinence and reordered the content of abstinence: “The law of abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, the products of milk or condiments made of animal fat.”

So while the 1917 law included an exclusion of soups using meat, the 1966 norm which replaced it did not. The omission of broth derived from meat (iure ex carne vesci) was important. Had the legislator, who knew the law, wished to forbid broth, he would have done so. According to the principal of canon 20, “A later law abrogates, or derogates from, an earlier law it if it states so expressly, is directly contrary to it, or completely re-orders the entire matter of the earlier law.”

The same omission was carried into the current law: “Abstinence from eating meat or another food according to the prescriptions of the conference of bishops is to be observed on Fridays throughout the year unless (nisi) they are solemnities; abstinence and fast are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and on the Friday of the Passion and Death of Our Lord Jesus Christ (canon 1251).”

Consequently, the common opinion appears to be that a meat broth or bouillon would not violate the law of abstinence. Clearly though, chunky beef or chicken soup would.

Jello involves the boiling down of hooves and bones and tendons and tissues. Is it meat? There’s a fun question. Someone else can think about that one. Other questions include what is it really, and why would anyone eat it. But taste is a personal matter. In case a Jewish friend has you over for Lenten days of abstinence, shmaltz (chicken fat) would appear to be permitted. But while lard may be licit for various foods, such as refried beans, living la vida manteca may bring someone’s Lent (not to mention cardiac functions) to an abrupt end. Finally, if the giant of Jack and the Beanstalk were Catholic, he would have been safe in saying, “And I’ll grind your bones to make my meal.”

But as Bugs Bunny might have said about rabbit broth, let’s not split hares. Even if broth and bouillon are not forbidden, the spirit of penitential practice might ask us, so why consume them anyway?

Blessed Lent and Easter!
 
The Catholic Church’s definition of “fast” is to eat one main meal a day. If necessary, one may eat two smaller meals.

The Catholic Church’s definition of abstinence is not to eat the flesh of mammals and birds.

We can also do more the minimum. However, it is usually best to just go along with the rules and to do no more, nor no less than is required.

What comes to mind is the simplicty in obtaining a plenary indulgence, and how few people are able (or willing) to do the few simple things that are required.
 
Could somebody clarify the rules for drinks and fast days? Are non-water drinks allowed? Drinking between meals?
 
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JeanHeredia:
Hi all,
I have been wondering for quite some time now whether or not chicken or beef broth is acceptable for days of abstinence during lent. I had thought I had read that it was permitted but can’t recall where I had seen that.
Thanks!
Jeannie
Here’s an EWTN article on it…

ewtn.com/faith/lent/fast.htm
 
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