Fatalism?

[Generic_Man]

I have some difficuly questions dealing with God knowing everything we will do.

If God knows if we will go to heaven or hell, then why does he create someone he know will go to hell?

If God knows what we will do, can we escape or change our furure actions without contracting his omniscence? In other words, is fatalism correct?

 

[michael_legna]

No - fatalism is not correct.

But I think what you are referring to is called double predestination. Double Predestination is the idea that not only are some people predestined to be saved, but that others are predestined to be condemned. Double predestination is also rejected by the Catholic Church.

 

[Generic_Man]

No - fatalism is not correct.

But I think what you are referring to is called double predestination. Double Predestination is the idea that not only are some people predestined to be saved, but that others are predestined to be condemned. Double predestination is also rejected by the Catholic Church.

Can you explain? You just said no. This does not help me. I need to know why.

Let me explain my first question again

• God knows everything
• Therefore, he knows what our actions will be.
• Therefore, he knows whether we will go to heaven or hell.
• If God knows a person will go to hell, then why does He create him?

And my secon question

• God is omniscent.
• Since he is omniscent, he knows what we will do in the future.
• Since he knows what we will do, we will inevitably do it. If not, he cannot be omniscent.
• Ergo, we cannot change what we will do, because God knows our future and he is correct.
• If we cannot change what our futures hold, are we chained to our fates?

 

[michael_legna]

Generic Man:

Can you explain? You just said no. This does not help me. I need to know why.

Let me explain my first question again

• God knows everything
• Therefore, he knows what our actions will be.
• Therefore, he knows whether we will go to heaven or hell.
• If God knows a person will go to hell, then why does He create him?

I think you would be interested in the other discussion in the Philosophy forum about free will and omniscience:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=192534

I have been active in it trying to explain how it is that God choose not to know everything, so as to make it possible that we retain a true free will. That eliminates the issue of your first point. And I think it resolves it in a way that does not deny the Church’s teaching on this characteristic of God.
Generic Man:

And my secon question

• God is omniscent.
• Since he is omniscent, he knows what we will do in the future.
• Since he knows what we will do, we will inevitably do it. If not, he cannot be omniscent.
• Ergo, we cannot change what we will do, because God knows our future and he is correct.
• If we cannot change what our futures hold, are we chained to our fates?

Again the first point of your list is handled by the discussion in that forum.

I cannot offer you a conclusive proof of the answer to this is paradox, but I think this might help, otherwise I would not be recommending it.

 

[Wollie]

the problem with this question is that it puts G-d in time when He is most defiantly not inside of time. He is omniscient, meaning that He knows all things from all times.

when He created the universe He knew man would betray Him.

why would He then create man…?

wait! your putting G-d in time again!

trying to understand G-d is very difficult because He is very different from us… we are inside time and He is not.

G-d knows all possible choices you can make and knows the ones you will choose… but He does not choose it. You do. Free will means you can do what you want to do. G-d does not force you to love Him. Yes, He knows whether you will love him or not, but the choice is still up to you.

G-d is omniscient because he is outside time. Time matters to us and so we have free will because we are inside time. You can’t put G-d into a human box!