Father Pio or Pope paul the 2

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Which person do you think had the biggest influence on Catholic?On Christianity?What percentage of the world heard has heard about St.Pio?What significance or effect does St.Pio’s stigmata make?Without the stigmata would people have knnown as much about him or would Catholics not honor him as much?Does anyone think that the stigmata is self induced meaning that by praying and thinking and pondering Christ’s crucifiction deeply over many years that a person can actually cause the stigmata to appear on his body?What made St.Pio so much different than any other Catholic?Did God do something special to this man or was it mostly his because he just wanted to be holy and prayed more than most people?
 
…What percentage of the world heard has heard about St.Pio?..
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To paraphrase Mel Brooks, **St. Pio is world famous in Italy**!  I am told his shrine receives more visitors that Lourdes.  

Are you saying he shouldn't have been sainted, Valentino? :confused:
 
Which person do you think had the biggest influence on Catholic?On Christianity?What percentage of the world heard has heard about St.Pio?What significance or effect does St.Pio’s stigmata make?Without the stigmata would people have knnown as much about him or would quote]
there is no way to know until we have the judgment of history and even then won’t have the whole story.
don’t forget, Padre Pio influenced Pope John Paul II and possibly the popes before him who had him investigated. Influence on the pope is strong indeed.

The stigmata is not why Pio is a saint. Holiness and virtue are why he is a saint. Had there been no stigmata maybe he would have had less publicity, but my guess is the real evidence of his holiness would have been no less effective.

the influence of prayer and redemptive suffering and a life quietly lived in obedience to vows of ones state in life is always as effective, or more so, than active work in the Church. always. When John Paul is canonized it won’t be for the latter, but for the former, his holiness and fidelity, not his actions.
 
To paraphrase Mel Brooks, St. Pio is world famous in Italy! I am told his shrine receives more visitors that Lourdes.
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Are you saying he shouldn't have been sainted, Valentino? :confused:
Absolutely not.Why does he say world famous in Italy?isn’t it more accurate to just say “world famous”?
 
valentino;7975371:
Which person do you think had the biggest influence on Catholic?On Christianity?What percentage of the world heard has heard about St.Pio?What significance or effect does St.Pio’s stigmata make?Without the stigmata would people have knnown as much about him or would quote]
there is no way to know until we have the judgment of history and even then won’t have the whole story.
don’t forget, Padre Pio influenced Pope John Paul II and possibly the popes before him who had him investigated. Influence on the pope is strong indeed.

The stigmata is not why Pio is a saint. Holiness and virtue are why he is a saint. Had there been no stigmata maybe he would have had less publicity, but my guess is the real evidence of his holiness would have been no less effective.

the influence of prayer and redemptive suffering and a life quietly lived in obedience to vows of ones state in life is always as effective, or more so, than active work in the Church. always. When John Paul is canonized it won’t be for the latter, but for the former, his holiness and fidelity, not his actions.
so his holiness would have been recognized in all the world if he had never had the stigmata.Right?So,who has had the bigger influence?St.Pio or St.PPaul2?or is it just impossible to say?
 
Absolutely not.Why does he say world famous in Italy?isn’t it more accurate to just say “world famous”?
It is a joke, Valentino. Said about someone who is not world famous, but is really famous in one place as if they were world famous.

And I was paraphrasing. Mel Brooks was talking about a fictional actor being “world famous in Poland.” I modified the statement to be about St. Pio because he is omnipresent across Italy.

È lei italiano?
 
It is a joke, Valentino. Said about someone who is not world famous, but is really famous in one place as if they were world famous.

And I was paraphrasing. Mel Brooks was talking about a fictional actor being “world famous in Poland.” I modified the statement to be about St. Pio because he is omnipresent across Italy.

È lei italiano?
thanks fjor responding.I’ll try to be less serious in the future.
 
Which person do you think had the biggest influence on Catholic?On Christianity?What percentage of the world heard has heard about St.Pio?What significance or effect does St.Pio’s stigmata make?Without the stigmata would people have knnown as much about him or would Catholics not honor him as much?Does anyone think that the stigmata is self induced meaning that by praying and thinking and pondering Christ’s crucifiction deeply over many years that a person can actually cause the stigmata to appear on his body?What made St.Pio so much different than any other Catholic?Did God do something special to this man or was it mostly his because he just wanted to be holy and prayed more than most people?
Why ask us? Ask him yourself.
 
I never hear of Padre Pio until just before he was canonized when a parishioner asked to put a statue of him in our courtyard. I still don’t understand what great influence he had on the CHurch at large. He was a good priest and that is probably why he was canonized. JPII however did have a great influence on the CHurch through his teachings, his writings and his pastoral concern for God’s people. He also taught us about redemptive suffering.

Ever since we put up that statue we began to have a mass in thanksgiving for Padre Pio at the request of the family who donated the statue. Each year the number of people who attended got less and less. Last year the people who donated the statue didn’t even come. So I guess he doesn’t have that much influence. I don’t think we are having the mass this year for lack of interest. So, no, I don’t think Padre Pio had more influence on the CHurch than JPII.
 
I never hear of Padre Pio until just before he was canonized when a parishioner asked to put a statue of him in our courtyard. I still don’t understand what great influence he had on the CHurch at large. He was a good priest and that is probably why he was canonized. JPII however did have a great influence on the CHurch through his teachings, his writings and his pastoral concern for God’s people. He also taught us about redemptive suffering.

Ever since we put up that statue we began to have a mass in thanksgiving for Padre Pio at the request of the family who donated the statue. Each year the number of people who attended got less and less. Last year the people who donated the statue didn’t even come. So I guess he doesn’t have that much influence. I don’t think we are having the mass this year for lack of interest. So, no, I don’t think Padre Pio had more influence on the CHurch than JPII.
Thank for responding.I agree many more people knnow of Blessed PPaul 2 than St.padre Pio.
 
Both men were very holy men who we can learn from. But, given the fact that John Paul II was Pope for nearly 30 years, I would say he has had a greater impact on the Church. John Paul II was particularly important in getting the Church to become such a defender of life. And although John Paul II is not often thought of a great theologian his Theology of the Body is probably one of the biggest theological developments in Catholicism during the 20th century.
 
In my mind, JP2 is greater and I’ve attended Padre Pio prayer group for many years and admire the man immensely for his service and faithfulness.
Try to remember that because they have gone to their rest doesn’t mean that they are not finished their work here on earth! The best is yet to come.
 
Which person do you think had the biggest influence on Catholic?On Christianity?What percentage of the world heard has heard about St.Pio?What significance or effect does St.Pio’s stigmata make?Without the stigmata would people have knnown as much about him or would Catholics not honor him as much?Does anyone think that the stigmata is self induced meaning that by praying and thinking and pondering Christ’s crucifiction deeply over many years that a person can actually cause the stigmata to appear on his body?What made St.Pio so much different than any other Catholic?Did God do something special to this man or was it mostly his because he just wanted to be holy and prayed more than most people?
The question is kind of odd and the answer is obvious. Bl. John Paul II had a much more extensive influence in the world than St. Pio. Bl. John Paul influenced the world inside the Church and beyond. He helped bring down Communism in Europe. He opened the door to more dialogue with people of other faiths. He brought hundreds of thousands of young people to the faith and took the fiath to them. He inspired the foundation of over 500 new religious communities around the world. He governed the Church for 25+ years.

St. Pio had his own sphere of influence, but not as extensive as that of Bl. John Paul. As to the stigmata, no it’s not possible to think yourself into a stigmata. It’s a good theory, but has never happened. However, the stigmata did not make him a saint. It was his life of heroic virtue that got him into heaven. The stigmata was about God as are all miracles, not about the person. He was only the means that God used, just as he used St. Francis, who was the first known stigmatist.

Both men brought great holiness to the Church, because what sanctifies one member sanctifies the body.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
In my mind, JP2 is greater and I’ve attended Padre Pio prayer group for many years and admire the man immensely for his service and faithfulness.
Try to remember that because they have gone to their rest doesn’t mean that they are not finished their work here on earth! The best is yet to come.
other than them praying for mankind from heaven what can they do for us today?we can pray for their intercession but I don/t think that’s what you meant?
 
The question is kind of odd and the answer is obvious. Bl. John Paul II had a much more extensive influence in the world than St. Pio. Bl. John Paul influenced the world inside the Church and beyond. He helped bring down Communism in Europe. He opened the door to more dialogue with people of other faiths. He brought hundreds of thousands of young people to the faith and took the fiath to them. He inspired the foundation of over 500 new religious communities around the world. He governed the Church for 25+ years.

St. Pio had his own sphere of influence, but not as extensive as that of Bl. John Paul. As to the stigmata, no it’s not possible to think yourself into a stigmata. It’s a good theory, but has never happened. However, the stigmata did not make him a saint. It was his life of heroic virtue that got him into heaven. The stigmata was about God as are all miracles, not about the person. He was only the means that God used, just as he used St. Francis, who was the first known stigmatist.

Both men brought great holiness to the Church, because what sanctifies one member sanctifies the body.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Is the stigmata given to a person for himself personally(do you think there have been people who have had stigmata and no one never knew)or is it some sort of sign that which brings people’s attention to this holy person who may otherwise never have been noticed?I know that the people who have recieved it see it as a way of sharing in Christ’s passion and they feel that they are sharing in God’s redemptive act.Do you know of any other reasons for the stigmata?
 
JReducation:Thanks.Yes,you’re right.It should have been obvious to me.
 
Is the stigmata given to a person for himself personally(do you think there have been people who have had stigmata and no one never knew)or is it some sort of sign that which brings people’s attention to this holy person who may otherwise never have been noticed?I know that the people who have recieved it see it as a way of sharing in Christ’s passion and they feel that they are sharing in God’s redemptive act.Do you know of any other reasons for the stigmata?
Miracles serve several purposes.

Consolation: They serve to remind us that we are not alone. God has not abandoned us.

Strengthen the faith of God’s people: They remind us that everything that has been revealed to us about the Glory of God through Christ is true. They will always draw attention to Christ, not the individual subject of the miracle.

Salvation of the recipient: They draw the recipient into the life of the Trinity.

There have been other saints who had invisible stigmata: Catherine of Siena and Faustina. St. Rita had it on her forehead.

To the best of my knowledge, the only stigmata that ever factored into a canonization was that of St. Francis of Assisi. The reason was very obvious. Pope Gregory IX, formerly Cardinal Hugolino, had been the Cardinal Protector of the Franciscans. He was a close friend to Francis, Anthony of Padua and Clare of Assisi. He knew Francis, first-hand. When Francis died, he said that he knew enough about the man’s sanctity to believe that God had truly rewarded him with the ultimate identification with Christ.

Unlike other saints, Francis did not wish to share in the sufferings of Christ. His theology was very different. He was Trinitarian. He taught that our journey is to the Father, but no one gets to the Father except by conforming to the Son, which is impossible to do without the life of the Holy Spirit. His desire and prayer was that the Holy Spirit would allow him to love as Christ had loved from the cross. His focus was on love, not suffering. Though he understood that love is a choice that hurts. Pope Gregory would later say that Francis had become so much like Christ that there was nothing else but to become physically like him as well. In the pope’s mind, the miracle of the stigmata was simply the next logical step to becoming the Mirror of Perfection. Christ was reflected in Francis. St. Bonaventure would later prove Pope Gregory’s statement to be true using scripture and philosophy.

St. Pio’s stigmata has a different history. The fullness of its implication is still to be understood. However, we can believe that it did provide consolation to Pio, strengthen the faith of the people, and drew Pio into a deeper communion with the Trinity than most of us will ever experience on this side of heaven.

We also know something about St. Pio that the laity seems to blow off or not know at all. St. Pio was in love with his spiritual father, Francis. His mystical journey began during his childhood. He could have become a secular priest and join the local diocese or join another religious community. That was not to be, because once he became familiar with Francis of Assisi he was completely sure that only by following Francis’ lead could he save his soul and that of others. He was convinced that the way of life that St. Francis had set up, if it was lived as Francis envisioned it, would lead to the Trinity. Francis became his teacher and master and he became the student. It was this intense desire and choice to live the Gospel and his fidelity to the way of life that had been handed down to him that earned him sainthood. Like Francis, his greatest attributes were poverty and unquestioning obedience.

That’s why I always feel so sad for those who go around shouting and making accusations about how much St. Pio suffered at the hands of the Church and the order. The truth is that he made two statements about this when asked. “Obedience, obedience, obedience.” He was happy to obey. The other was similar, “Keep close to the Catholic Church at all times, for the Church alone can give you true peace, since she alone possesses Jesus, the true Prince of Peace, in the Blessed Sacrament.” As we can see from his own words, he did not see the negative that everyone else sees. He understood human limitations, fears and the concerns of the Church and the Order. He also knew that Christ wanted him to obey and that the Church alone would give him peace. For him, this was all part of a process that begins with obedience and ends in peace that only the Church can give, because she possesses Christ.

Maybe that’s the similarity and difference in the stigmata between the father and the son (Francis and Pio). In Francis’ case, God reveals that it is possible for a soul to love as Jesus loved. In Pio’s case, God reveals that passion is a journey that begins with unquestioning obedience and ends with divine peace.

As we can see, Bl. John Paul walked down a different path . . . but to the same end. He too obeyed. He suffered and he ended his life in the hands of the Father.

Fraternally,

Br.JR, OSF 🙂
 
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