"Father, Why have you Forshaken me?"

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Montie_Claunch

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On the Cross in Mark 15:34 when Jesus said, “My God, My God, Thy hast thou forsaken me?” I always thought that it was a refrence to Psalm 22. Any way My Aunt, Whom is SDA, and I were talking relgion rather late over the past weekend as we have done so tradtionally for years and this came up and she said that it was Jesus through the whole agonizing experiance was acctually asking why God had forsaken him. Later I thought, wait wouldn’t that me aposotsy, which is a rather bad sin? Anyway I was wondering what ya’ll thought about what the scripture meant?
 
Her interpretation is not the popular form, I regularly see references to Psalm 22, and instead of saying the whole thing, Jesus just said the beginning - but in fact the whole point was that God would vindicate his crucifixion.

Any other interpretation would be very out of character for Jesus anyway, and quoting Psalms would not be.
 
I don’t know if this the same thing. My expastor told me that Jesus literally took on all of our sin and actually became sin. That the reason that the sky darkened was because God couldn’t look on Jesus due to the fact that God can not look on sin. So, in his mind, I suppose that Jesus would have been literal in asking “Why God have you forsaken me?” He showed me verses to back up his views but he tended to hop from one verse to another and then tie them together.

This belief has always left me confused. I know that I am being very ignorant here, but do Catholics believe something different?
 
From what I have studied and been taught and accept, I agree that the verse Jesus is quoting on the cross is from Psalm 22 and if you read this psalm, rather than being an expression was rather an expression of final surrender to the Father’s Will (and that Will wasn’t that Jesus should die but rather never compromise himself, his principles his message even if it meant death).

However, I would also like to offer a personal reflection that in a way agrees with your aunt, however, in comes much earlier in the Passion. I find that Jesus had come to a point of feeling totally abandoned, as alone as any human ever felt or could ever feel. This happened during the Agony in the Garden where Jesus’ fear and anxiety were so great he sweated blood (a phenominon that has been documented happening to others under unbelievable stress and was known especially in the Concentration Camp of the Nazi’s). That’s when I feel Jesus felt his abandonment but by the time He uttered the word’s on the cross from psalm He had placed Himself completely in the Hands of the Father.
 
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TOME:
From what I have studied and been taught and accept, I agree that the verse Jesus is quoting on the cross is from Psalm 22 and if you read this psalm, rather than being an expression was rather an expression of final surrender to the Father’s Will (and that Will wasn’t that Jesus should die but rather never compromise himself, his principles his message even if it meant death).

However, I would also like to offer a personal reflection that in a way agrees with your aunt, however, in comes much earlier in the Passion. I find that Jesus had come to a point of feeling totally abandoned, as alone as any human ever felt or could ever feel. This happened during the Agony in the Garden where Jesus’ fear and anxiety were so great he sweated blood (a phenominon that has been documented happening to others under unbelievable stress and was known especially in the Concentration Camp of the Nazi’s). That’s when I feel Jesus felt his abandonment but by the time He uttered the word’s on the cross from psalm He had placed Himself completely in the Hands of the Father.
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One must also keep in mind the Jewish tradition of the Rabbi saying the first words of a psalm and the congregation joined into finish the prayer.

Now go back and read that Psalm in light of all the people who condemned Jesus to death knowing that the Jewish response would be to join in and recite that Psalm. While the crowd might not have gotten the message, I think the Pharisees did.
 
This is the first I had heard that Jesus was quoting Psalms 22. After reading the chapter, I found it very moving that Jesus would be quoting it as he died. Powerful.

I was also always taught that it was because Jesus took on all our sin, and that the father turned his face away from him. One reference that I do know comes from Daniel 9:26 where it describes Jesus’ death as being cut off. I was taught that at that moment, he would be cut off from the Father.

2 Cor 5:21
For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Hab 1:13
[Thou art] of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, [and] holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth [the man that is] more righteous than he?

One thing is for sure, I see that declaration in a whole new light.
 
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dkward2:
This is the first I had heard that Jesus was quoting Psalms 22. After reading the chapter, I found it very moving that Jesus would be quoting it as he died. Powerful.

I was also always taught that it was because Jesus took on all our sin, and that the father turned his face away from him. One reference that I do know comes from Daniel 9:26 where it describes Jesus’ death as being cut off. I was taught that at that moment, he would be cut off from the Father.

2 Cor 5:21
For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Hab 1:13
[Thou art] of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, [and] holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth [the man that is] more righteous than he?

One thing is for sure, I see that declaration in a whole new light.
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This is what I was taught. Do Catholics have a similar belief? I have to admit the above never made sense to me. Why couldn’t God who sees all our sin every day not look upon his son? Now I am confused, so someone help me out.
 
Montie Claunch:
. Any way My Aunt, Whom is SDA, and I were talking relgion rather late over the past weekend as we have done so tradtionally for years and this came up and she said that . . .?
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your aunt is probably a very fine lady and sincere in her beliefs but she has not been appointed by the Catholic Church to interpret sacred scripture, and is not guided and protected by the Holy Spirit in interpreting scripture, as is the Church, so she is not a very good guide to scriptural interpretation, worthy though she may be in other areas.
 
Our friend Orion the Hunter has got it right. Read completely through the Psalm 22. The Pharisees probably got a little squirmy about 1/4 of the way into the Psalm.

But if you continue to read through it, you’ll realize that Jesus was using that Psalm to bolster Mary, John, and the rest of the mourners. The second half of that Psalm glorifies God, as Mary and John surely knew, even if they didn’t understand why.

A little clue to the Pharisees comprehension of the reference to Psalm 22 is that you’ll notice they don’t mock Jesus after He said this.

In our Adult Class, we use the following example of what Jesus is doing. "If I sang the line, ‘Bye, bye, Miss American Pie…’, a lot of you would continue to sing the song in your head (and hating me for it somewhere in the homily)".

Notworthy
 
Hello Montie,

Remember where the sick woman sneaks up on Jesus and touches His garment? She is immediately healed. Though Jesus is surrounded by people close to Him and touching Him, He stops and looks back and asks who touched Me? It was not the touching of His cloak that Jesus felt. It was the Holy Spirit flowing out from Him into the woman to heal her that He felt.

I think it was when the sin of the world came upon Jesus at His crucifixion, Jesus felt the Holy Spirit depart from Him. I believe that this is why Jesus asks, “Father, Why have you Forsaken me?”
 
Everything that Jesus said on the Cross, had spiritual significance. Do you seriously think He actually thought that at His crowning moment (He knew he came to this world to die for us), that He felt that God had abandoned Him???

He referenced the first line of Psalm 22 to silence the Pharisees and to enbolden His followers. You must remember the sheer agony Christ had to go through to stand on the nail in His feet in order to release the pressure on His lungs so that He could say any words.

From, “I thirst” to “It is finished”, to “My God, why have you forsaken me”, everything had a fuller meaning.

Notworthy
 
He said those words to bring to mind Psalm 22, which is a Psalm that begins with sadness, but ends with joy, victory, and the assurance of spiritual sovereignty over the earth.

The suffering Christ is looking forward through the darkness to the triumph.
 
It’s also interesting to note that Jesus was mocked the same way as was written in Psalm 22:8-9—All who see me mock me; they curl their lips and jeer; they shake their heads at me: “You relied on the LORD–let him deliver you; if he loves you, let him rescue you.”
 
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