Fathers on Foetuses

  • Thread starter Thread starter F_J_Woods
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

F_J_Woods

Guest
While browsing the news, I came across an article that asserts that Thomas Aquinas and Augustine both did NOT believe that foetuses in the beginning stages of life were human. The article is attached below. I would like to hear a refutation of this.

Thank you all.

Guardian (UK)Copyright 2005 Guardian Newspapers Limited.

March 29, 2005

[truncated]
G2: The church wants to stifle ethical debate

David Aaronovitch
Mitres to the left, birettas to the right; it’s been a faith-filled, polarising Easter. On Sunday it was Cormac Murphy O’Connor, head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales, drawing a parallel between the Nazi extermination of the Jews and others, and Britain’s abortion policies. The cardinal even used the totemic figure, speaking of “the termination of six million lives in the womb since the Abortion Act was introduced”. And he also warned about where developments in stem-cell research, euthanasia and IVF are taking us. “That way,” he argued, “lies eugenics, and we know from German history where that leads.”

He has a point, and the Catholic church has a right to make it. The memory of eugenics - the science of human selective breeding - has an unpleasant way of intruding itself into modern debates on screening for disability, on the quality of life and on the definition of life itself.

Back in the 20s and 30s there were plenty of people on the intellectual left who took the view that some lives were not worth living. George Bernard Shaw advocated euthanasia for “the sort of people who do not fit in”, Aldous Huxley supported sterilisation to “prevent the sub-normal from having any families at all”, Fabian founder Sidney Webb warned about “the breeding of degenerate hordes of demoralised ‘residuum’ unfit for social life”, and the birth-control pioneer Marie Stopes disinherited her son for the genetic sin of marrying a girl with myopia.

All this argument had an effect. In 1934 a Department of Health report recommended compulsory sterilisation of the “feeble-minded”. It was in good measure that Catholic intellectuals such as G K Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc, together with Labour MPs, blocked the attempt to bring in such appalling legislation.

They weren’t so fortunate elsewhere. Compulsory sterilisation laws were first passed in a majority of US states and - between 1928 and 1936 - in Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland and Estonia. And in Germany, under the Nazis, a 1933 law on selective sterilisation became, by stages, a secret forcible euthanasia programme deployed against the severely handicapped.

One constant theme in all these developments was the opposition of the Catholic church, with its faith-based assertion that only God had the right to decide which life was worth living, and which was not.

This history is important because people sometimes talk as though they know everything. It is - on either side - an open and shut question as to whether we should permit euthanasia, choose the gender of a child, use foetal cells in research, screen out abnormalities, carry out or forbid abortions at a particular stage of pregnancy, switch Terri Schiavo off or keep her hanging on for ever.

But the story of eugenics suggests that we must never stop debating and agonising about these matters. That’s why I think it’s probably wrong to be angry with the cardinal. If you believe what the cardinal believes - that each zygotic entity is a human being equal to any other - then a Holocaust has indeed taken place.

If we concede that, however, then the cardinal should concede something in return. Which is that this belief is not at all an inevitable product of Catholic history and teaching, as he seems to suggest, but a relatively recent dogma. Indeed, the Catholic writer Daniel Dombrowski points out that “one of the best kept secrets in the history of Catholicism . . . is that Saints Augustine and Thomas Aquinas - two of the most important thinkers in the Catholic church - did not see the foetus in the early stages of pregnancy as a human person. In fact, Augustine remarkably compares the foetus in the early stages of pregnancy to vegetation.”

It wasn’t until 1869, and the Apostolicae Sedis of the reactionary Pius IX, that the church decided that all abortion was homicide. By 1974 the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith issued a “Declaration on Procured Abortion”, ignoring the first 1,800 years of Catholic history by arguing that not only was abortion forbidden, but that “one can never claim freedom of opinion as a pretext for attacking the rights of others, most especially the right to life.”

So the difficulty is that we may want a debate about all these questions. But too often the Church doesn’t really want to debate at all, it wants to instruct. It wants to pretend that it has the answers, and has known them all along. And in so doing, it turns its back on the people.
 
First, I’d like to see the proof that St Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas said that. Don’t take at face value what anti-Catholics have to say.

Secondly, St Augustine went through a search for truth that lasted years and years and years. Before he decided (finally) on the truths of the Catholic Church, he embraced other beliefs. This statement about St Augustine could have been taken from his pre-Catholic days.

Thirdly, what does the writer mean by “ignoring the first 1800 years of church history?” A lot of times, declarations from the church will be made not because it is something new but simply in response to a rising heresy. The church puts it in writing to make it official and not simply something that was understood.

This writer either only knows enough about Catholicism to be “dangerous” or decides to write only part of the story.
 
SusanL:

Very good point - I did not vet this first before posting, nor did I frame my question well.

The easiest way to refute this, I suppose, would be to go to Church fathers to get more opinions on foetuses, though I wonder how often that was on the mind of thinkers during the first several centuries of the Church.

If you or anyone else knows where such knowledge resides (e.g. a corpus of Catholic writing/teaching on pregnancy/foetuses) I’d be much obliged.
 
If we concede that, however, then the cardinal should concede something in return. Which is that this belief is not at all an inevitable product of Catholic history and teaching, as he seems to suggest, but a relatively recent dogma.
It–the belief that abortion kills an innocent human being–is not so much an inevitable product of Catholic history and teaching, as it is an inevitable product of advances in the knowledge of embryology.

Aquinas considered all abortion sin, but not necessarily homicide, because he did not know when the fetus became human. Note that he considered it to be a sin in any case. And why didn’t he know when it became human? Because his knowledge of embryology was limited. Today we know with biological certainty when a new human being begins. Every one of has had our beginning at conception. That’s when a new and distinct individual of the human species comes into existence.

So the only argument cannot be about: when does a human being begin? It can only be about: Are all human beings to be considered human persons? Do all human beings have equal value? Those are not scientific questions. Catholic theology has consistently replied that all human beings have personhood by reason of their very humanity, and that all human beings must be protected, regardless of age or dependency. (It should also be noted that within the Roe v Wade decision, it was noted that should the court consider the fetus to be a human being, it would have to be protected.)
 
Hello F J Woods,

There have been some interesting threads on this issue. St. Augustine used the term quickening as to when he thought life started in the womb. If you do a CA search on the word quickening you will find some threads where this is discussed if you are interested.

Many Catholics today believe that papal “infallibility” should have protected the Church of St. Augustines time from believing a faith and morals issue such as when life starts in the womb. It is suprising to see that many Church leaders suggest that the Church uses God’s gift of science to lay down Church laws on faith and morals and it is not totally a revilation from God, unrelated to scientific knowledge, through papal “infallibility” as many modern day Catholics believe it should be.

It is all interesting.

some CA threads discussing Augustine on quickening.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=38003&highlight=quickening

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=38663&highlight=quickening

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top