Fatima -- help me understand this?

[DAML72]

I would say a quick answer is that if a private apparition offends you, the church said you don’t have to follow it. So there is no problem.

For others if they wish to follow this, then the church said that this particular apparition of Mary is worthy of our faith. So there is no problem.

One suggestion, you are looking at the wrong websites. Start with the good ones, and leave the bad ones until you have had more experience in theology. If a person drinks poison then should they be disappointed if they wake up dead. I don’t mean to be offensive, but it sounds to me you aren’t able to handle this kind of controversy, so swim in the safe waters and stay away from the sharks.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

THIS! I would recommend you stay away from these types of websites - you are going to find yourself falling down a rabbit hole and, unless you have some guidance in spiritual discernment, you are going to end up being misled. (Remember I recommended Father Timothy Gallagher’s works to you? - I did that precisely because I got the feeling that you are encountering this type of material and need help in discernment.)

As far as the Rosary goes - it is a scriptural prayer. The Hail Mary is taken directly from scripture. It is not mere recitation because it is a meditative prayer. There are many more ways to address the assertions you referenced, I just don’t have time to address it right now. My suggestion would be to turn on EWTN, take a deep breath, and relax. You don’t have to figure this all out in one day. Give the Holy Spirit time to work and to lead you. Conversion is a life-long process. There is no hurry.

 

[marywarfield]

Hi everyone – as you may know I am a lapsed Catholic who is considering coming back to the church. I have been getting more comfortable with the idea of it, but yesterday I was reading about Fatima and I came across a website that stated this:

*The 5th of the 15 promises made by Our Lady of Fatima concerning the Rosary is so blasphemous that it is unmistakable, clear, proof, that Catholics do indeed worship Mary (which is sinful idolatry). Here’s the 5th promise…

The soul which recommends itself to Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish. —SOURCE

Blasphemy!!! You cannot show me even one Scripture from the Word of God where we are told to trust in Mary, by reciting the Rosary to be saved. In fact, the word “Rosary” is NOT a Bible term. The Rosary is straight out of the pits of Hell. Jesus condemned vain repetition in Matthew 6:7. According to Our Lady of Fatima (whose teachings are officially sanctioned by the Vatican), a person can obtain eternal life through Mary by reciting the Rosary. In sharp contrast, Jesus Christ proclaimed in John 14:6… “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” How could Catholics be so arrogant, so blind, and so apostate as to believe that salvation is found in Mary? I tell you, Catholicism is of the Devil. *

Strong condemnation and language, I know. But if we see past that offensiveness, it does raise a point that I am uncomfortable with. The Bible clearly states that Jesus is the only way we can attain salvation. How then can the apparition of Mary say that we can be saved through her?

I’m not wanting to offend anyone just want information. Blessings!

Well first of all the fifteen promises are repeated from
Fatima but were made centuries before.

Secondly yes of course Mary saves. The same way
John, Mark, Matthew, Luke and Paul saved.

She is rightly known as Queen of Apostles because
through her Rosary and prayers sinners are
called to Jesus Christ, to conversion, to repentance
and to Baptism in His Name. She is after being His
Own Mother the greatest of all Apostles.
So does she save sinners? Absolutely just as anyone
on earth or in Heaven introduces sinners
to the grace of Jesus Christ.

 

[jshalom]

Should we venerate (honor) the Virgin Mary? Let’s look at the Bible:

1. Mary is addressed by an Angel as ‘full of grace’ (or highly favored’) Luke 1:28

2. Mary said** ‘yes’ to God** through his Angel (Luke 1:38)

3. Mary is** ‘overshadowed’ by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35)**

4. Mary is called** ‘Blessed among woman’** by Elizabeth (Luke 1:42)

5. Mary gave birth to our Lord and Savior (Luke 2:7)

6. Mary (and Joseph) raised Jesus, and Jesus was obedient to them (Luke 2:51)

7. Mary is one of Jesus’ first disciples, present at the wedding in Cana (John 2:1)

8. Mary **interceded (on behalf of the wedding party) to Jesus for more wine (John 2:3)
**
9. Mary is present ‘at the foot of the cross’ when many disciples had fled (John 19:25)

10. Mary is given as ‘mother’ to ‘the disciple whom Jesus loved’ (and the Church) by Jesus (as he is dying on the cross) (John 19:26-27)

11. Mary remains a disciple after the Crucifixion, is present with the other disciples **at Pentecost, she receives the Holy Spirit (a second time!) (Acts 1:14; 2:1-4) **

So the question is: Should we venerate (honor) Mary?

"For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed" **(Luke 1:48) ** - Absolutely YES

Yes, for sure.
She is the Mother of God, the Mother of the Church and proclaimed the Mediatrix of All Graces. She is the Immaculate Conception and the only person, besides Christ, to be in Heaven Body and Soul.
Being Mother of God, She is Our Mother too.
Everything we can do for her is nothing compared with what she did for us: She gave us the Son of God.

 

[PennyinCanada]

Blasphemy!!! You cannot show me even one Scripture from the Word of God where we are told to trust in Mary, by reciting the Rosary to be saved. In fact, the word “Rosary” is NOT a Bible term. The Rosary is straight out of the pits of Hell. Jesus condemned vain repetition in Matthew 6:7. According to Our Lady of Fatima (whose teachings are officially sanctioned by the Vatican), a person can obtain eternal life through Mary by reciting the Rosary. In sharp contrast, Jesus Christ proclaimed in John 14:6… “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” How could Catholics be so arrogant, so blind, and so apostate as to believe that salvation is found in Mary? I tell you, Catholicism is of the Devil.

First of all, the Bible is a CATHOLIC book. It was the Catholic Church that decided on the books that would comprise the New Testament and the Church instructs us in the faith and what scripture says. It was protestants that removed some books because some books didn’t agree with their theology, but that’s another thread. The Rosary does not need to be a Bible term, the entire Rosary is filled with Scripture! The word Trinity is not in the Bible but we understand the Trinity’s concept from scripture. Any person who would say that the Rosary is straight out of the pits of Hell has no clue that it is a meditation on Scripture. Jesus condemned vain repetition. Reciting words from scripture is the opposite of vain repetition! If someone spent 15 min a day reciting the Lord’s prayer, saying it slowly, clearing their mind of worldly cares, keeping a picture of the Lord in their imagination, walking through His passion, who would say that would be vain? Great graces have been obtained through such prayer, and these folks are sadly mistaken.

I am very glad you came on Catholic Answers and asked your question. Be sure to read good sources to increase your faith, to strengthen your understanding. We are standing on the Rock which is Christ and there is always a reasonable answer to your questions. There are a lot of people who hate the Church. Please don’t go to them to understand scripture or the Catholic faith. They will be full of misinformation. God bless you on your journey.

 

[InNomineDomini]

What the phrase essentially means is that anyone who has a devotion to Our Lady necessarily will have a heart that’s open to Christ and to grace, or else they normally wouldn’t even have such devotion in the first place. Devotion to Our Lady, via the recitation of the Rosary, is of course therefore encouraged. It helps us to grow closer to Christ, which in turn helps us to fight the good fight, and to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. It helps us to do all of the things that prayers do, since God bestows His grace on those who ask for it.

The phrase does not mean that reciting the Rosary is a magical, mystical tool that can guarantee a happy afterlife due to its inherent powers. To be sure, this position would be heretical for a Catholic to hold to. Frankly, the idea that ANYTHING could somehow magically and mystically ensure our salvation beyond all doubt – including the well-known sinner’s prayer of Protestantism – is rejected by the Church. We have faith, we hope, and we love; but we do not presume that we will be given the gift of final perseverance simply because God owes us for something we’ve done.

The problem for a lot of folks – and not just those of Protestant backgrounds – is that language like that found in the promises is confusing theologically. You can’t read such a promise and decipher every nuance of Mariology from it. Instead, you need to have a foundation in Mariology to interpret the sentence correctly. First things first.

Another problem is that devotional language is often old-fashioned, flowery, and heavily perfumed. People get tripped up thinking that certain poetic flourishes or certain turns of phrase are meant to be theological legalese. They’re not. They’re products of yesteryear and they’re meant to be beautiful and profound.

Lastly, some aspects of Marian devotion and Mariology are very hard, even for educated cradle Catholics. The general approach to Marian Consecration, for example, is a form of spirituality that is orthodox and has been lauded by popes from St. Pius X to St John Paul II. But it is not for everyone, and some things you have to put aside until more fundamental things can be established in your mind.

 

[ccmcmg]

Hi everyone – as you may know I am a lapsed Catholic who is considering coming back to the church. I have been getting more comfortable with the idea of it, but yesterday I was reading about Fatima and I came across a website that stated this:

*The 5th of the 15 promises made by Our Lady of Fatima concerning the Rosary is so blasphemous that it is unmistakable, clear, proof, that Catholics do indeed worship Mary (which is sinful idolatry). Here’s the 5th promise…

The soul which recommends itself to Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish. —SOURCE

Blasphemy!!! You cannot show me even one Scripture from the Word of God where we are told to trust in Mary, by reciting the Rosary to be saved. In fact, the word “Rosary” is NOT a Bible term. The Rosary is straight out of the pits of Hell. Jesus condemned vain repetition in Matthew 6:7. According to Our Lady of Fatima (whose teachings are officially sanctioned by the Vatican), a person can obtain eternal life through Mary by reciting the Rosary. In sharp contrast, Jesus Christ proclaimed in John 14:6… “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” How could Catholics be so arrogant, so blind, and so apostate as to believe that salvation is found in Mary? I tell you, Catholicism is of the Devil. *

Strong condemnation and language, I know. But if we see past that offensiveness, it does raise a point that I am uncomfortable with. The Bible clearly states that Jesus is the only way we can attain salvation. How then can the apparition of Mary say that we can be saved through her?

I’m not wanting to offend anyone just want information. Blessings!

Others have answered regarding Mary quite well.

The word “Bible” is not in the Bible. Neither is Sola Scriptura. Nor is Protestant, Catholic, or many other terms or words that are in use today.

 

[NeedsMercy]

*The 5th of the 15 promises made by Our Lady of Fatima concerning the Rosary is so blasphemous that it is unmistakable, clear, proof, that Catholics do indeed worship Mary (which is sinful idolatry). Here’s the 5th promise…

The soul which recommends itself to Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish. —SOURCE

Blasphemy!!! You cannot show me even one Scripture from the Word of God where we are told to trust in Mary, by reciting the Rosary to be saved. In fact, the word “Rosary” is NOT a Bible term. The Rosary is straight out of the pits of Hell. Jesus condemned vain repetition in Matthew 6:7. According to Our Lady of Fatima (whose teachings are officially sanctioned by the Vatican), a person can obtain eternal life through Mary by reciting the Rosary. In sharp contrast, Jesus Christ proclaimed in John 14:6… “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” How could Catholics be so arrogant, so blind, and so apostate as to believe that salvation is found in Mary? I tell you, Catholicism is of the Devil. *

Like someone else said: Consider the source. You could not have picked a more hate-filled, Catholic-bashing site than “Jesus is Savior”. Most of it is garbage. They twist things to their own purpose, as you can see with what they did with Mary’s promises.

We do not worship Mary. We “cannot show…even one Scripture from the Word of God where we are told to trust in Mary”? Really? The fact that the Father asked Mary to bear the Son is God’s Own trust in her that she would say “yes” to His request. And if the Father trusted in Mary, should we not also? Nowhere—nowhere—are we told to recite the Rosary in order to be saved by Mary. Mary shows us how to be saved by her Son. And the love between the Son and the Mother is so great, that there would be few requests that the Son would deny Mary. Ask the Mother to intercede for you and your salvation with the Son. That’s the promise.

And what about *Matthew *6:7? It does not mention repetition: "And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.” Hail Marys are not empty phrases, but words from the Gospel itself. In his book “Secrets of the Rosary”, St. Louis de Montfort notes:

St. Mechtilde, who loved our Lady very much, was one day striving to compose a beautiful prayer in her honor. Our Lady appeared to her, with the golden letters on her breast of: “Hail Mary full of grace.” She said to her: “Desist, dear child, from your labor for no prayer you could possibly compose would give me the joy and delight of the Hail Mary.”

One more quote: “Never be afraid of loving the Blessed Virgin Mary too much. You can never love her more than Jesus did, and if anyone does not wish to have Mary Immaculate for his mother, he will not have Christ for his brother.” ~ St. Maximilian Kolbe

HTH

 

[rcwitness]

As I see it, the problem is in thinking like a catholic or thinking like a protestant. Adoration, veneration and honor are all in the definition of worship.

Take, for example, paragraph 971 of the CCC.

971 “All generations will call me blessed”: "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."513 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs… This very special devotion … differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."514 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.515

971 « Beatam me dicent omnes generationes » (Lc 1,48). « Ecclesiae pietas erga beatam Mariam Virginem pertinet ad naturam ipsam christiani cultus ».540 Beata Virgo « speciali cultu ab Ecclesia merito honoratur. Et sane ab antiquissimis temporibus beata Virgo sub titulo “Deiparae” colitur, sub cuius praesidium fideles in cunctis periculis et necessitatibus suis deprecantes confugiunt. …] Qui cultus …] singularis omnino quamquam est, essentialiter differt a cultu adorationis, qui Verbo incarnato aeque ac Patri et Spiritui Sancto exhibetur, eidemque potissimum favet »;541 ipse in festivitatibus liturgicis Matri Dei dicatis exprimitur542 et in oratione mariana, sicut est sanctum Rosarium, « totius Evangelii breviarium ».543

Christian worship - christiani cultus

special devotion - speciali cultu

This very special devotion - Qui cultus

differs essentially from the adoration - essentialiter differt a cultu adorationis

To say that worship is only adoration is not supported by history or reality and one need only look in a dictionary to prove this. Words do not change what they mean. People change the way that they use words to support or propagate their agenda.

The problem with saying, “I worship Mary”, is that we do not Adore her, and adore is within the context of worship.

You see, to say worship means all that is defined in the term worship. So this is why the Church says, “The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.” and NOT, “The Church’s worship to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.”

The Church Teaches that when we are worshipping the Lord alone, we also cannot ignore His Mother, whom through the gospel, we see, He gave her to us. Neither can we ignore any of the people involved in His life which we can give respect for those who aided His ministry and forgiveness to those who were a hinderence. Mary was completely free of any hinderence to HIm. He gave her to us through her participation in the grace given to her from Jesus. When we recognize her within our worship of the life of Christ, we give His Mother the veneration/honor/respect of one who both was blessed above all AND she did not step aside from her blessing.

I therefore, believe the Church to touch on the profound purity which Mary has in the Saviour, which is the meaning behind the “sword which pierced her heart”.

But where I part ways with devotions I believe to be excessive, is treating her as a high priestess and giving her all our devotion in the hope that she purifies is to Jesus. This crosses a line in the faith that we have, and need to have, direct relationship to the Father through Jesus.