Fatima: Worthy of belief vs Required

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Fatima is private revelation so no, no need to believe in it.
 
Thank you. I understand that on an intellectual level, but I find it so ingrained in Catholic culture I feel somewhat “less than” if I don’t accept it. Maybe it’s the media I’ve been listening to and reading.
 
If it bothers you to read about private revelations, then I suggest you do not read about them, or watch videos, etc.

You will, however, find that many other Catholics do strongly believe in Fatima, Lourdes, other approved private revelations, and many even believe in unapproved private revelations. It is best if you just politely avoid these folks and don’t be bringing up how you don’t believe in Fatima, etc as some people will not react well to that.
 
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As others have said it is private revelation thus you don’t have to believe it. However it is a Church approved apparition. May I ask your reservations regarding it?
 
Tis_Bearself said:
don’t be bringing up how you don’t believe in Fatima, etc as some people will not react well to that.
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That’s kind of on them, though, if they “don’t react well.” Assuming he is expressing his disbelief respectfully, of course. Like, I’m at best agnostic about Fatima but I wouldn’t mock someone for whom it’s an important part of their faith. It’s just not really a part of mine. I’d expect the same respect about my lack of belief that I extend to their belief.
 
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I struggle with apparitions in general. If a message needs to be sent, why not to all, why to children, and why show innocent children hell? I guess I’m very skeptical by nature.
 
sealabeag said:
As others have said it is private revelation thus you don’t have to believe it. However it is a Church approved apparition. May I ask your reservations regarding it?
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Well, one doesn’t need a reason for “reservations” about a private revelation. Their purpose is to point us towards devotion and action on public revelation.

Many Catholics are encouraged by other private revelations besides Fatima. It’s not helpful to ask what their “reservations” are about Fatima, or what reservations Fatima types have about the others.

Private revelation is like the music in Church. It should not have a purpose of its own.

If a given hymn gives Bob the encouragement he needed at that moment (in living out the Mass) that’s great, but don’t dwell on that particular song. If Sue was reflecting on the gospel and didn’t notice or need that church approved song, don’t ask Sue what were her reservations.
 
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glad2bhome said:
I struggle with apparitions in general. If a message needs to be sent, why not to all, why to children, and why show innocent children hell? I guess I’m very skeptical by nature.
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Because it would interfere with our free will. Faith should never be forced. Hell is a reality that most people want to ignore, they prefer to believe that Hell is empty. If it is empty, then one might as well believe it doesn’t exist at all.
 
RolandThompsonGunner said:
That’s kind of on them, though, if they “don’t react well.” Assuming he is expressing his disbelief respectfully, of course.
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He might quickly find a throng of them either trying to convince him, giving him far-fetched pamphlets on Garabandal, or just reacting in an aghast manner like he just rejected some dogma. It’s fine to say “It’s on them” when you’re secure enough that you wouldn’t even be asking the question on here that OP did. Not everybody is to that level of saying different strokes for different folks.

Also, not saying the OP would do this, but some people are not exactly respectful in making announcements that they don’t believe in apparitions. Or they pick the wrong moment to bring it up, like right in the middle of 25 people arriving for Fatima Holy Hour.
 
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glad2bhome said:
I struggle with apparitions in general. If a message needs to be sent, why not to all, why to children, and why show innocent children hell? I guess I’m very skeptical by nature.
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It was sent to all. Anyone who wants can practice prayer and penance to save sinners and help the Pope and the world. That’s all that the message of Fatima is. You don’t have to see a vision and in fact people shouldn’t need apparitions to remind them to do stuff they should be doing anyway.
 
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No, we do not have to “believe” in Fatima — but, if nothing else, we do have to believe that something very, very unusual took place on that hillside on 13 October 1917, the “Miracle of the Sun”, even if not supernatural, something very strange. 70,000 people saw what they perceived as the sun dancing, and their clothes suddenly became dry after a soaking rain followed by very warm currents of air. Yes, you could say that “sun dogs” (optical illusions of refracted sunlight) are common in that part of the world — assuming they are — and that mistral-type winds, only hot instead of cold, are common there as well (ditto), and you could say Lucia knew this from years of living there and tending sheep, and you could say that she took a wild guess that both sun dogs and warm winds would occur precisely at noon on that day, and you could say that she just got lucky and “timed it just right” for the crowd to be there. As I have mentioned here in the forums before, I’m not well-versed enough in central Portuguese meteorology, to know whether this could be true or not. The easiest explanation is just to take it at face value, and accept it as worthy of belief, the same as the Church does.

Still no proof, you say? Do we believe that Lincoln was really shot by John Wilkes Booth in Ford’s Theater? There were a lot fewer than seventy thousand people in attendance. No video evidence? Motion pictures hadn’t been invented yet, and photography was in its relative infancy. Is it possible that someone else shot Lincoln on the way to the theater, and that everybody in the audience was paid off to lie about what happened? You tell me.

The prophecies, yes, you’re free to believe or not believe. What happened on that day in October at Fatima, no, that’s pretty much an objective historical fact. Make of that what you will.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
No, we do not have to “believe” in Fatima — but,
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Suppose John forgets the gospel message. So God sends him reminders to get his attention back on the gospel.

Bill does not forget the gospel message. He doesn’t need those extra reminders. This doesn’t mean Bill is somehow less holy, less believing, than John. I wouldn’t look down on John for taking advantage of extra reminders (private revelations) he needs, but don’t question the guy who God may be ministering to in better ways we aren’t attentive to.

Suppose one student gets extra remedial help for learning Math. That doesn’t automatically mean he knows Math better than the one who did not get that help. I wouldn’t be ashamed of taking extra remedial help, but I wouldn’t Lord it over the other guy either, or question him "what’s your objection to remedial help?
 
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commenter said:
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HomeschoolDad:
No, we do not have to “believe” in Fatima — but,
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Suppose John forgets the gospel message. So God sends him reminders to get his attention back on the gospel.

Bill does not forget the gospel message. He doesn’t need those extra reminders. This doesn’t mean Bill is somehow less holy, less believing, than John. I wouldn’t look down on John for taking advantage of extra reminders (private revelations) he needs, but don’t question the guy who God may be ministering to in better ways we aren’t attentive to.

Suppose one student gets extra remedial help for learning Math. That doesn’t automatically mean he knows Math better than the one who did not get that help.
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I was simply referring to an objective historical fact that was chronicled even in the newspapers of the day, and by photographs (granted, of people looking up to the sky, not of the whirling sun itself).

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I can only somewhat decipher Portuguese, not really read or speak it, but I think the headline says “How the sun danced at noon at Fatima”.

If only there could have been live reports from CNN and BBC World News back in those days!
 
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The reports would have been inconclusive because many people didn’t see anything and also many skeptics have just written that whole business off to mass hysteria.

It doesn’t matter, as the people God wanted to see it, saw it.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
The reports would have been inconclusive because many people didn’t see anything and also many skeptics have just written that whole business off to mass hysteria.

It doesn’t matter, as the people God wanted to see it, saw it.
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Yes, but how to explain what happened, precisely when and where it was predicted to happen, with physical effects (the sudden heat and drying out of the clothes) that were, to say the least, very hard to explain as natural phenomena?
 
As the old saying goes,
To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary.
To one without faith, no explanation is possible.
 
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@glad2bhome

Fatima reiterates ancient teachings that have been preached from the Gospel since the apostolic age, so you don’t have to believe in Fatima because Fatima doesn’t say anything new in terms of doctrine.

Everything essential is in public revelation.

Peace
 
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Would someone be kind enough to tell me exactly what has been declared ‘worthy of belief’?
  1. the detailed accounts of messages and events of the children given at the time
  2. (1) plus later elaborations by the children
  3. the content of the messages only and not the events recounted by the children
  4. the ‘miraculous’ evens involving the sun, non-wetting rain etc reported by others
  5. some other combination
 
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