Feeling guilty because Roman Catholicism isn't working out for me

  • Thread starter Thread starter WoundedIcon
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I do seem to be holding on to some Protestant misunderstandings: I’m afraid of falling back into a work-less happy grace-faith, and I - even though I know otherwise - can’t shake the Protestant understanding of the role works play in Catholicism. I almost seem to fear being happy in my faith, as though that leads to sin, stupidity, and Hell. So I’ve become rigorously legalistic and fallen into moralism by freaking about the Mass and tradition, trying to dress Christian, feel Christian, talk Christian, and listen to Christian music because I don’t dress like a Christian, feel like a Christian, talk like a Christian, listen to very “Christian” music, and when I go to church and see that everyone is kinda similar to that churchy stereotype I get scared that I have to be like them or God won’t be happy. Like no one will ever consider me a good Christian if I’m myself. I don’t know how to undo it though! I fall apart after Mass for like a six days becoming pissed off at everyone and everything for making me feel like I need to be the same, feel the same, etc. I’m in “hi isn’t it obvious I’m unchurched” hell. Nobody has ever treated me badly but I still feel so filthy.
You just converted recently. You just need to let things work out naturally. You are still in a transitional phase. I say, enjoy the ride. This is the time when you learn many new and important stuff. There does get a point when you seem a bit lost in between and tend to have negative thoughts and emotions about one or the other faith. Just make sure you have someone to guide you and help you out, a spiritual director. Doesn’t have to be a priest but someone knowledgeable in the faith to make sure you are on the right path always.
 
… Mass has become an occasion of sin for me because I hate the way the priests seem so flippant about it, I hate the horrible music that tries to force me to make the faith all about feeling nice, I hate feeling herded into effeminate, sentimental, saccharine spirituality, I hate the status quo of mediocrity (why is it normal to never use the propers, etc.), I hate the lack of our traditional expressions, I hate the lack of hearty teaching, I hate watching the priest replace the homily with a discussion on parish finances like it’s normal, I hate feeling like my intelligence and culture make me at best useless, at worst a potential troublemaker… because I’m starting to tilt toward an angry Traditionalism. …
I suggest that you give up the habit of hating things -
and that you learn to embrace grace as the central factor of living.

The Church does not exist to please any one of us.
It exists so that we, in community, can worship God.
It exists so that we can become holy -
through the Sacraments and through personal sacrifices.
 
…] when I go to church and see that everyone is kinda similar to that churchy stereotype I get scared that I have to be like them or God won’t be happy. Like no one will ever consider me a good Christian if I’m myself. I don’t know how to undo it though!
Being a good Christian is between you and God.

St. Benedict Joseph Labre didn’t fit in. He and God worked out a different path for him. Maybe you’re not called to look like everyone else. Maybe you are a sign to others that God calls all men to Himself! Trust Him and He will work things out for you.
I fall apart after Mass for like a six days becoming pissed off at everyone and everything for making me feel like I need to be the same, feel the same, etc. I’m in “hi isn’t it obvious I’m unchurched” hell. Nobody has ever treated me badly but I still feel so filthy.
You are not filthy! Look at how hard you are working to get to God! That’s a good Christian! Trying is Christian! And in one way or another, we’re all unchurched in this society. We just have to keep mucking our way through and asking God to help us.

And keep giving that anger back to God. That’s what I do. I sometimes cry my eyes out on the drive home. I say, “God, see how much I need you. I don’t want to feel like this.”

I think this is God’s way of uncovering those wounds so that we can give them back to Him to heal us.
 
Well, I have my ow nsympathies for you. I was raised on the Novus Ordo, Latin-rite Mass, but was never particularly religious until I turned thirteen- then I started exploring the rites and theology. I started with two years of personal theological study, and catholic bible research. I’ve also deleved into Eastern Theology myself, but I like Roman Theology better; it seems less complicated to me.
I started out my quest for a different rite by attending one EF Mass, and loved it; I’ve also been to a few Anglican-Use parishes, but didn’t like them that much; too much anglican influence for me. I’ve never attended a Divine Liturgy before, but I’ve seen them on tv and love them, even if a Western Mass is easier to follow. In my personal spirituality and belief, however, I practice more of a mix of Traditionalist Catholic and Orthodoxy, leaning particularly towards the Eastern side. That is, icon veneration, the Jesus prayer, singing Akathists and the like. I even use both the Orthodox Horologion and Latin Traditional Breviary for the Divine Office, sometimes in conjunction for the same hour. Also, I use the Orthodox calendar (NEW) if there aren’t any feasts on the Genral Roman Calendar.
You could be like me; Roman Catholic, but with an Eastern side.
 
If you are spiritually fed at the Byzantine parish then go there…it really is that simple. No need to make a big fuss about it…just start attending there regularly and do what you can to fit in.

Read what you can about Eastern theology band practice.

Weclome to the Byzantine Church!!
👍

You’re still just as Catholic, just in another rite. Maybe that’s where God is calling you!
 
As others have said and I agree, the issues you face are more complex than rite.

Having said that, you should attend church where you feel most comfortable. If you like the Eastern rite church you attend, then continue to do so and meet people.

There is no rush to switch rites. Rushing to make a decision will cause you more anxiety than peace.

No parish/church is perfect. Nothing in this world is a panacea for all troubles. You will find issues wherever you go. That’s how life is.

Just continue to attend, learn and trust in God.

I will keep you in my prayers.
 
As others have said and I agree, the issues you face are more complex than rite.

Having said that, you should attend church where you feel most comfortable. If you like the Eastern rite church you attend, then continue to do so and meet people.

There is no rush to switch rites or define yourself one way or the other. Rushing to make a decision will cause you more anxiety than peace. Just continue to attend, learn and pray that God will help you find joy.

I will keep you in my prayers.
Good point. Being Catholic, one is free to attend any Liturgy of any Rite in communion with Rome, receive Communion, and have their confessions heard from priests of those Catholic Rites. No need to switch just to attend. Its best to try it out, so to speak. Go there for a few months first and see if it will suit you.

Many live out their lives in another rite without any formal switch. I’ve already found my home in the Ukrainian Church but have yet to switch Rites. No one, even the bishop, sees me as an outsider. I am part of the community and of the Church. But the process takes time. But it shouldn’t stop us from living the spiritual life of another Rite if it is what brings us closer to God.
 
I want to become Byzantine, but I feel kind of scared and guilty about it. I converted to Roman Catholicism - from Protestantism - in June after studying it, Orthodoxy, and “sacramental” Protestant sects for months. But I’m so stressed out and disappointed now that, being mentally ill, I’m sick and neurotic all the time. I feel empty inside, like there’s a yawning hole in my heart that typical Roman practice can’t fill. I don’t fit in at any of the parishes I can regularly reach, being a young man in a city where the parishes are primarily older people in a cultural milieu completely different than mine with the parishes barren of youth. I long for tradition and a sense of culture, continuity, identity, and community but the way the faith is practiced here is so simple, shallow, and sentimental and "Catholic identity" changes depending what neighborhood you’re in. Mass has become an occasion of sin for me because I hate the way the priests seem so flippant about it, I hate the horrible music that tries to force me to make the faith all about feeling nice,* I hate feeling herded into effeminate, sentimental, saccharine spirituality,* I hate the status quo of mediocrity (why is it normal to never use the propers, etc.), I hate the lack of our traditional expressions, I hate the lack of hearty teaching, I hate watching the priest replace the homily with a discussion on parish finances like it’s normal, I hate feeling like my intelligence and culture make me at best useless, at worst a potential troublemaker… because* I’m starting to tilt toward an angry Traditionalism*.

I take it all too personally, but the fact is that, regardless of whether I should put so many of my eggs in a parish basket, I’m lonely and poor and have no way to meet people or feel a sense of community without church because I can’t work or go to school. So I’m falling apart here, and I figured maybe I could become Byzantine because I feel at home at the local Byzantine parish.* It has a more even distribution of ages, the people are from a different neighborhood that I like better, the Divine Liturgy doesn’t allow for so many inculturations and I like it better anyways because I feel like it’s reverent, traditional, beautiful, and allows me to actively worship -* I prefer it to even the EF mass - I like the culture, the iconography, and most of all I prefer the spirituality and theology. It’s so positive and it gives me a sense of self-transcendence with all the emphasis on theosis and ascetic struggle. The legalities of the Roman tradition hurt for someone as insecure as me. But I feel so guilty for up and leaving without really attending a more traditional parish and seeing the Roman identity and continuity. But I think ultimately I don’t fit in, and my spiritual progress is suffering dearly due to all these issues. I feel completely comfortable when I consider myself Eastern and practice accordingly. I leave the Liturgy happy. I get to talk to people because the parish is smaller and they notice newcomers. I think the parish is beautiful, I don’t feel like a fish out of water, etc. But I still. feel. bad.

My main concern is a prideful one I must admit - I made something out of myself studying tons of Western theology over the years, and now I have no clue where to begin with the East. I keep telling myself I like the intellectualism and dogmatic precision and such but let’s face it - there’s a huge gulf between theology and praxis here. Lots of head knowledge, but I need something experiential. I don’t have a Christian “heart”, but I don’t want my heart to be like the Romans’ because their spirituality feels so feminine and sensual. So I kick and scream myself into an emotional mess. I just need to know where to go, what to read, to learn about Orthodoxy/Byzantine theology and praxis. Because compared to Protestantism and Roman Catholicism there is no where near as much detailed information available online. I’m afraid I won’t be able to learn about it. Plus I’d miss my sacramentals and devotions, and that makes me concerned about indulgences as well. (As you can see I’m trying to stop myself from acting like I don’t have to accept certain dogmas which shows that I’m not going to go all traditionalist once I transfer.)

I know it’s a lot of talk about me, me, me here but I have to preserve myself somehow because I feel so sick from all the stress. I feel so alone.
Lorain has ~70,000 population. The median age is 34. There are at least 6 parishes.

You “say” You’ve been Catholic all of 4 months after studying the faith for a few months. I have to tell you, if it’s true that you are mentally ill, I can give you a pass. But if you aren’t mentally ill, and “mentally ill” is just a euphamism, this is a very uncharitable post.
 
I want to become Byzantine, but I feel kind of scared and guilty about it. I converted to Roman Catholicism - from Protestantism - in June after studying it, Orthodoxy, and “sacramental” Protestant sects for months. But I’m so stressed out and disappointed now that, being mentally ill, I’m sick and neurotic all the time. I feel empty inside, like there’s a yawning hole in my heart that typical Roman practice can’t fill. I don’t fit in at any of the parishes I can regularly reach, being a young man in a city where the parishes are primarily older people in a cultural milieu completely different than mine with the parishes barren of youth. I long for tradition and a sense of culture, continuity, identity, and community but the way the faith is practiced here is so simple, shallow, and sentimental and “Catholic identity” changes depending what neighborhood you’re in. Mass has become an occasion of sin for me because I hate the way the priests seem so flippant about it, I hate the horrible music that tries to force me to make the faith all about feeling nice, I hate feeling herded into effeminate, sentimental, saccharine spirituality, I hate the status quo of mediocrity (why is it normal to never use the propers, etc.), I hate the lack of our traditional expressions, I hate the lack of hearty teaching, I hate watching the priest replace the homily with a discussion on parish finances like it’s normal, I hate feeling like my intelligence and culture make me at best useless, at worst a potential troublemaker… because I’m starting to tilt toward an angry Traditionalism.

I take it all too personally, but the fact is that, regardless of whether I should put so many of my eggs in a parish basket, I’m lonely and poor and have no way to meet people or feel a sense of community without church because I can’t work or go to school. So I’m falling apart here, and I figured maybe I could become Byzantine because I feel at home at the local Byzantine parish. It has a more even distribution of ages, the people are from a different neighborhood that I like better, the Divine Liturgy doesn’t allow for so many inculturations and I like it better anyways because I feel like it’s reverent, traditional, beautiful, and allows me to actively worship - I prefer it to even the EF mass - I like the culture, the iconography, and most of all I prefer the spirituality and theology. It’s so positive and it gives me a sense of self-transcendence with all the emphasis on theosis and ascetic struggle. The legalities of the Roman tradition hurt for someone as insecure as me. But I feel so guilty for up and leaving without really attending a more traditional parish and seeing the Roman identity and continuity. But I think ultimately I don’t fit in, and my spiritual progress is suffering dearly due to all these issues. I feel completely comfortable when I consider myself Eastern and practice accordingly. I leave the Liturgy happy. I get to talk to people because the parish is smaller and they notice newcomers. I think the parish is beautiful, I don’t feel like a fish out of water, etc. But I still. feel. bad.

My main concern is a prideful one I must admit - I made something out of myself studying tons of Western theology over the years, and now I have no clue where to begin with the East. I keep telling myself I like the intellectualism and dogmatic precision and such but let’s face it - there’s a huge gulf between theology and praxis here. Lots of head knowledge, but I need something experiential. I don’t have a Christian “heart”, but I don’t want my heart to be like the Romans’ because their spirituality feels so feminine and sensual. So I kick and scream myself into an emotional mess. I just need to know where to go, what to read, to learn about Orthodoxy/Byzantine theology and praxis. Because compared to Protestantism and Roman Catholicism there is no where near as much detailed information available online. I’m afraid I won’t be able to learn about it. Plus I’d miss my sacramentals and devotions, and that makes me concerned about indulgences as well. (As you can see I’m trying to stop myself from acting like I don’t have to accept certain dogmas which shows that I’m not going to go all traditionalist once I transfer.)

I know it’s a lot of talk about me, me, me here but I have to preserve myself somehow because I feel so sick from all the stress. I feel so alone.
Don’t feel guilty. Just go an speak with the priest at your Byzantine Parish.
 
I do seem to be holding on to some Protestant misunderstandings: I’m afraid of falling back into a work-less happy grace-faith, and I - even though I know otherwise - can’t shake the Protestant understanding of the role works play in Catholicism. I almost seem to fear being happy in my faith, as though that leads to sin, stupidity, and Hell. So I’ve become rigorously legalistic and fallen into moralism by freaking about the Mass and tradition, trying to dress Christian, feel Christian, talk Christian, and listen to Christian music because I don’t dress like a Christian, feel like a Christian, talk like a Christian, listen to very “Christian” music, and when I go to church and see that everyone is kinda similar to that churchy stereotype I get scared that I have to be like them or God won’t be happy. Like no one will ever consider me a good Christian if I’m myself. I don’t know how to undo it though! I fall apart after Mass for like a six days becoming pissed off at everyone and everything for making me feel like I need to be the same, feel the same, etc. I’m in “hi isn’t it obvious I’m unchurched” hell. Nobody has ever treated me badly but I still feel so filthy.
It seems that you are not comfortable with who you are. You have an idea of what a Christian is supposed to look like and this stresses you out. I onced had a chat with a Cistercian monk who thought that most Christian (popular) music is pious ****. Yes, in those words. 😛 There is absolutely no need for you to force certain things because they don’t make you Catholic. I have to say that you should work on this and find peace, accept who you are. We come in all shapes and sizes and middle-class white America that you seem to encounter in church is most certainly not the norm. The Catholic church is the universal church. Never forget that.
 
I want to become Byzantine, but I feel kind of scared and guilty about it.
I remember singing once at St Nick’s parish in Lorain. At the time I thought it was a very nice, kindly and intimate, parish community. (off topic: I have a private belief that one of their pastors in days gone by may be a saint.)

Being involved in a small parish, with a tight-knit community and holiness all around is a great blessing. Don’t think for one minute as if this is some kind of betrayal. The tradition is fully Catholic, and if it helps you to participate in this form of sprituality and understanding I think you owe it to yourself to explore it, this may take a lifetime.

In a smaller parish like this you also have many opportunities to get involved, and through this giving of yourself you might find more peace and joy.

I suggest you give it this idea a try, and don’t worry about what anyone else may think. This is between you and God.

Prayers for you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top