Feeling guilty

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anglewannabe
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Anglewannabe

Guest
Ok, first a bit of back ground. There is a guy at work who just can NOT work independently. He is slow to understand certain concepts. I just don’t like working with him. The good news is, I don’t really have to deal with him all that much apart from the good morning routine and the have a nice evening comments.

What bugs me about him is I find he can be manipulative in an innocent way. What I mean is I don’t think he realizes how he is being manipulative. I think he is scared because he is incapable of doing his work and like a scarred little boy, he is just trying to find anyone he can to help to avoid the consequences of not getting things done.

My manager has made it crystal clear that we are to work on the tasks she has assigned and if we do anything else that takes more than 20 minutes, we need to ask her first and she will determine whether it is worth our time or not. I have been cashing in on that. Whenever he asks me indirectly to do his work I say ‘I am sorry but I have instructions to work only on my project I can not spend time helping you’. He leaves me alone but then I feel guilty because he asks other people and these people help him. I feel guilty that now these other people have to take the hit, or guilty that these people are looking like better team players than me. But I pray to go to help me let that go since others are free to do as they please.

Well, last week he came up to me and said ‘I really think you need to come look at this because I believe it will affect your project as well.’ And I fell for it. The list of things he did that just down right annoyed me
  • when he showed me how my project tied into it, he had it all wrong and when I tried to explain why my project was and how it worked, he blantantly ignored me
  • his Excel formulas were all wrong and for our job, this was a basic skill he should have known better and should have checked them before asking me to come over
  • he was trying to get me to do his work again
But what just drives me nuts is often when I say something he will interrupt me saying ‘yes yes I agree’ and then continue to do what I just asked him to stop. Like I said before, I don’t think he is malicious half as much as I think he just isn’t that bright. For example, he was trying to figure out something our manager told all of us not to waste anytime on. I said to him ‘This is the type of thing ‘Sandy’ made clear we are not to spend any time on’ to which he said ‘yes yes you are right however, please just help me figure out this number’ So, I called in another team member whose actual job is to help when needed and politely excused myself.

I was at the end of my rope with him. I did not want to rat him out, but I really need this to stop. And he is the type if I tell him to not bother me, he will immediately agree and then do it anyway. So I don’t feel asserting myself to him would work. So, I went to the manager, played dumb (because I knew exactly what she would say) and asked ‘How much time am I suppose to help Dan. I feel bad because I want to be a team player and help (blatant lie on my part) but I know I need to do my work’ And I was told to not help him.

I feel guilty because I only did that hoping she would indirectly find out he can not work independently. so that’s my story

Angie
 
I guess what is at issue here is whether your guilt is legitimate or not.

It seems to me, you are simply following procedure set by your superiors, and that he is not fully capable of doing the job expected of him.

I can say that I’m not a very patient person, and I would probably be much tougher with him than you have been. It seems to me his level of competence is below what is expected for the job requirements.

Is not your feeling of guilt rather a misplaced sympathy for the guy’s inability to get the job done himself? People are what they are as far as intelligence goes, and we can’t really be responsible for our own intelligence or lack thereof, but he’s not meeting the expectations required of him. Isn’t it that simple?

Whatever course you choose, you should be resolved about it and not look back, it seems to me.

Not sure if this helps you. Pray for guidance, I’d say, if you’re still uncertain.

Blessings!
 
Anglewannabe said:
Ok, first a bit of back ground. There is a guy at work who just can NOT work independently. He is slow to understand certain concepts. I just don’t like working with him. The good news is, I don’t really have to deal with him all that much apart from the good morning routine and the have a nice evening comments.

What bugs me about him is I find he can be manipulative in an innocent way. What I mean is I don’t think he realizes how he is being manipulative. I think he is scared because he is incapable of doing his work and like a scarred little boy, he is just trying to find anyone he can to help to avoid the consequences of not getting things done.

My manager has made it crystal clear that we are to work on the tasks she has assigned and if we do anything else that takes more than 20 minutes, we need to ask her first and she will determine whether it is worth our time or not. I have been cashing in on that. Whenever he asks me indirectly to do his work I say ‘I am sorry but I have instructions to work only on my project I can not spend time helping you’. He leaves me alone but then I feel guilty because he asks other people and these people help him. I feel guilty that now these other people have to take the hit, or guilty that these people are looking like better team players than me. But I pray to go to help me let that go since others are free to do as they please.

Well, last week he came up to me and said ‘I really think you need to come look at this because I believe it will affect your project as well.’ And I fell for it. The list of things he did that just down right annoyed me
  • when he showed me how my project tied into it, he had it all wrong and when I tried to explain why my project was and how it worked, he blantantly ignored me
  • his Excel formulas were all wrong and for our job, this was a basic skill he should have known better and should have checked them before asking me to come over
  • he was trying to get me to do his work again
But what just drives me nuts is often when I say something he will interrupt me saying ‘yes yes I agree’ and then continue to do what I just asked him to stop. Like I said before, I don’t think he is malicious half as much as I think he just isn’t that bright. For example, he was trying to figure out something our manager told all of us not to waste anytime on. I said to him ‘This is the type of thing ‘Sandy’ made clear we are not to spend any time on’ to which he said ‘yes yes you are right however, please just help me figure out this number’ So, I called in another team member whose actual job is to help when needed and politely excused myself.

I was at the end of my rope with him. I did not want to rat him out, but I really need this to stop. And he is the type if I tell him to not bother me, he will immediately agree and then do it anyway. So I don’t feel asserting myself to him would work. So, I went to the manager, played dumb (because I knew exactly what she would say) and asked ‘How much time am I suppose to help Dan. I feel bad because I want to be a team player and help (blatant lie on my part) but I know I need to do my work’ And I was told to not help him.

I feel guilty because I only did that hoping she would indirectly find out he can not work independently. so that’s my story

Angie
Click to expand...
Hi Angie, I will offer a view point that you will probably not like, but here goes. Put yourself in his shoes. I’m sure you’re bright and catch on quickly, but what if you struggled to understand most of what people told you, or you understood them perfectly but the next day could not remember anything? What if you asked a random person for direction and when he said “set of lights”, you thought immediately’, “Why did he mention “satellites”?” It’s a great blessing to be witty, to catch on quickly, and i know personally the torment that not being able to learn or understand entails. Eighty years of life is a daunting prospect for people like us. I understand we may annoy people, heck i even annoy myself. Not to lay a guilt trip on you, just thought I’d offer some insight.
 
There is greater virtue, perhaps, in the advice Kristos has given you. And it may in the end make you a happier person at work. Looks like you’ll have to pray for the gift of prudence and counsel in this circumstance!

God Bless.
 
I don’t see a problem with what you did. You have a job that you are required to do, and your boss easily could have (even though you didn’t want her to) told you to go ahead and lend this guy a hand occasionally. It may be that this guy is in way over his head, or that he isn’t bright, or that he just needs some training, but if he is incapable of doing his job, then he should either become capable or get another job, not get you to do it for him.

I can understand the “look at it from his perspective” idea, but even then - he wasn’t trying to get you to teach him (which you are explicitly not allowed to do anyway), he was trying to get you to do his work. If he was honestly seeking to learn, then that’d be one thing - and even if you couldn’t teach him yourself during work, you could recommend a source or two that might be useful. But he’s not.

There’s another perspective as well: that of your employer. At the moment, they are essentially paying him to stop you from doing your job, and they have a right to know this. And again, if there was a training element involved, it’d be different. Your employer can allocate the time they are paying for to train this guy so that he can work efficiently if they so chose, but a) this is up to them (as represented by your manager) and b) (and once again) doing his job isn’t training him.

So: he is not doing what would be best for him (seeking either the ability to do his job, or moving to a job he has the ability to do), he is not doing what is best for you (when he gets you to do his job, he is wasting your time - not using, but wasting, since he’s not getting trained, and is hurting your projects, in addition to causing you to violate your agreements with your employer), and he is not doing what is best for the company because he’s taking their money and neither producing results, nor being trained to do so.

And if he won’t, then the only person who can address this is your manager. And she can’t if she doesn’t know. And again, if she picks up on what you said, then, if she chooses, she can see to it that this guy gets the training he needs to do his job. And if that’s not possible, then he’s in the wrong job. No one likes it when that kind of situation comes up, but it’s not making it any better to pretend it’s not there, and even if we feel somewhat guilty when we point them out, we need to realize that the guilt isn’t justified - we didn’t make the situation, we’re just refusing to be complicit in pretending that things are other than they are.
 
You should not feel guilty as this situation would be difficult for anyone to handle properly. Kristos might have given you some insight to this other person’s issues but you still have a problem to solve dealing with his issues. In addition, it would seem to me that your supervisor should be investing a little more of themselves into solving this man’s problems rather than letting you manage him. So, try to be patient but firm, you need to do your job correctly first. If there is time after that then do what you can but it is not your job to do his. I will pray for you to be lead forward with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
 
JamalChristophr said:
Is not your feeling of guilt rather a misplaced sympathy for the guy’s inability to get the job done himself?
Click to expand...
You hit the nail on the head several times here.

1-) I feel very guilty because I recently loss my dad, he has two young boy and his wife stays at home with them. He is the only source of income for these two kids. I have had enough struggles in the work force to now know what my dad went through to keep a roof over my head. Ever since my dad died, I have a much greater appreciation for everything he did for me and my heart just bleeds for the two little boys that are dependant on such an incapable man

2-) I also feel guilty because his behaviour is the type of behaviour that got me let go from previous jobs. People accused me of being hard headed when I though I had a good point they were missing. I would try to explain my point to people who could not understand it and then I was labelled hard headed. I can’t help but think that in his mind, he really believes he is right but everyone around him is missing his point. One reason I want management involved. If management see his point, management can change the focus and I will listen to management. However, there is an opposite side to the coin. I am jealous that he is getting away with this behaviour when I was being let go for it

Angie
 
kristos said:
Hi Angie, I will offer a view point that you will probably not like, but here goes. Put yourself in his shoes. I’m sure you’re bright and catch on quickly, but what if you struggled to understand most of what people told you, or you understood them perfectly but the next day could not remember anything? What if you asked a random person for direction and when he said “set of lights”, you thought immediately’, “Why did he mention “satellites”?” It’s a great blessing to be witty, to catch on quickly, and i know personally the torment that not being able to learn or understand entails. Eighty years of life is a daunting prospect for people like us. I understand we may annoy people, heck i even annoy myself. Not to lay a guilt trip on you, just thought I’d offer some insight.
Click to expand...
I hear what you are saying. However, it is hard for me to be sympathetic when I am on a contract, trying to impress them so they keep me on and he is taking me away from the opportunity to do great work and shine. I know what it is to have incompetencies. I know what it is like to be horrible at team sports. I don’t expect the whole team to change so I can play on the team. I accept my limitations, wish them a good time on the field and do something else

Also, he does trigger memories of an ex I had who just did not listen to a word I said. Sorry guy, this is probably going to offend a lot of men, but I have noticed that a lot of men are really good at acting like they totally understand what I say and then immediately do the opposite. I resent being played for the fool, thinking the man knows what I mean and then doing the opposite. It is a great way to give me a headache. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if some men get a kick out of frustrating me and that is why they purposely do it. So, his behaviour often had me wondering if he is not just toying with me.

And lastly, management is aware we will have questions. They actually assigned a girl to handle all questions. Why is he coming to me instead of this girl? I suspect he realizes she thinks he is incompetent. As much as I don’t want to see him fired, I can not let him drag me down. To be honest, the more he gives me a hard time, the more I have moments where I wish they would fire him

Angie
 
I also feel guilty because his behaviour is the type of behaviour that got me let go from previous jobs. People accused me of being hard headed when I though I had a good point they were missing. I would try to explain my point to people who could not understand it and then I was labelled hard headed.
Click to expand...
It’s quite likely you did have a good point to make, but it seems, more often than not, people just don’t want to hear it. 😛 I think the majority of people don’t like to be corrected in any way nor do they wish to alter the status quo. But then again, maybe they just didn’t like how you phrased it or your delivery. :bighanky: Just a possibility, of course.

God Bless U Angie!
 
JamalChristophr said:
It’s quite likely you did have a good point to make, but it seems, more often than not, people just don’t want to hear it. 😛 I think the majority of people don’t like to be corrected in any way nor do they wish to alter the status quo. But then again, maybe they just didn’t like how you phrased it or your delivery. :bighanky: Just a possibility, of course.

God Bless U Angie!
Click to expand...
I wasn’t going to come out and say it, but yes, I did have a good point and because some people are not as intelligent as me, they could not get it. I feel that is the truth but since I could easily be labelled a hyporcrite, I just assume this guy at work has a good point as well that I am missing. But whenever he does try to explain himself, he is so far off in left field, I must refrain from exploding
 
Anglewannabe said:
You hit the nail on the head several times here.

1-) I feel very guilty because I recently loss my dad, he has two young boy and his wife stays at home with them. He is the only source of income for these two kids. I have had enough struggles in the work force to now know what my dad went through to keep a roof over my head. Ever since my dad died, I have a much greater appreciation for everything he did for me and my heart just bleeds for the two little boys that are dependant on such an incapable man

2-) I also feel guilty because his behaviour is the type of behaviour that got me let go from previous jobs. People accused me of being hard headed when I though I had a good point they were missing. I would try to explain my point to people who could not understand it and then I was labelled hard headed. I can’t help but think that in his mind, he really believes he is right but everyone around him is missing his point. One reason I want management involved. If management see his point, management can change the focus and I will listen to management. However, there is an opposite side to the coin. I am jealous that he is getting away with this behaviour when I was being let go for it

Angie
Click to expand...
Yes. Your boss has given you guidelines to protect your ability to work effectively for your employer, who is paying you. Use them. If they aren’t working for this fellow, just say, “Listen, Bob. These are the guidelines Sandy has given us. If they aren’t working for you, she deserves to have you go to her and say so, rather than undermining her by getting me to ignore them. I’m not going to circumvent them and I’m not going to go to Sandy for you when I don’t think the rules are your problem.” Then let Sandy decide what is in the best interest of all involved. If Bob won’t go to Sandy, that is his concern. He is a grown-up, and like you he is free to learn in his own way, even if it is the hard way.
 
Anglewannabe said:
.
Click to expand...
Hi Angie,

I don’t believe you will like my opinion, but I believe if you are feeling guilty, than it is because you know in your heart that you have wronged him.

My advice would be to be honest with him and than be patient and merciful as our Lord is with us. (I don’t have the full picture though either, this is just my 0.02 cents, feel free to discard it if you believe I am wrong).

Hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
I think you should treat this person in the way that you would want to be treated. Someday there may come a time when you are in a work situation that others are more skilled or intelligent than you, or a time when you frustrate someone. Think about how you would want a co worker to respond to you and act on it this way.
 
Your supervisor has made it clear what you are supposed to do…focus on YOUR work, not his. Your responsibility is to do your work to the best of your ability. Your coworker sounds very manipulative. I would be pleasant, but not chatty with him, and when he asks for help, I would direct him to the person assigned to answer questions. Wish him well in your heart, pray for him, and work on getting rid of the annoyed and jealous feelings.

Not helping him with his job problems (when your boss has directed you not to do this) is nothing to feel guilty about. The negative feelings are most likely why you are feeling guilty.
 
Bottom line is… your employer is paying you to do your job. When you are not doing your job, you are stealing from your employer.
 
From a slightly different perspective, I am a manager. I have one employee who is incredibly smart but struggled for a long time to communicate his ideas. I have another employee who is new to the job and is struggling. He doesn’t catch on as quickly as his teammates and I have seen how much of a struggle it is for him. With the help of the first employee, the second is learning the job and becoming more productive. With the help of the second employee, my first has learned to tailor communications and training to the audience and be a much more effective leader. He went from being an extremely smart middle of the road employee to my star employee.

Now this doesn’t mean that I expect either employee to do the other’s work or not follow procedures. But I would encourage you to think very hard about whether there is anything you can learn from helping this gentleman when it doesn’t have a huge impact on your own project.
 
jlc2k2 said:
From a slightly different perspective, I am a manager. I have one employee who is incredibly smart but struggled for a long time to communicate his ideas. I have another employee who is new to the job and is struggling. He doesn’t catch on as quickly as his teammates and I have seen how much of a struggle it is for him. With the help of the first employee, the second is learning the job and becoming more productive. With the help of the second employee, my first has learned to tailor communications and training to the audience and be a much more effective leader. He went from being an extremely smart middle of the road employee to my star employee.

Now this doesn’t mean that I expect either employee to do the other’s work or not follow procedures. But I would encourage you to think very hard about whether there is anything you can learn from helping this gentleman when it doesn’t have a huge impact on your own project.
Click to expand...
This is all very nice to do in some circumstances. However, my understanding of the OP’s situation was that her manager had specifically told her NOT to help him. There is a specific person who is supposed to be referred to for help, not the OP. She should be following her supervisor’s instructions.
 
Pax2u said:
This is all very nice to do in some circumstances. However, my understanding of the OP’s situation was that her manager had specifically told her NOT to help him. There is a specific person who is supposed to be referred to for help, not the OP. She should be following her supervisor’s instructions.
Click to expand...
Just trying to provide food for thought and my own experience for a different perspective. OP can take it or leave it. Regardless of whether she ever helps him again she may still be able to learn something from him and the experience.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top