fertility tests

[Gardening_Mommy]

The perforated condom option sounds fanatical and disgusting. (Sorry if that’s a harsh word.) A specimen jar, I guess, would be more appropriate, especially if you could give it in the privacy of your own home. :twocents:

The perforated condom certainly isn’t pleasant, but it is moral. Masturbation, on the other hand, is never moral. Why would you want to put immorality into your home? How does that make it less immoral?

And you apologize for “disgusting” but not “fanatical”?

Supposing a couple, who are suspecting infertility, having intercourse during a non-fertile time with a perforated confom. Is that really open-to-life? We’re kidding ourselves… aren’t we?

This is the same argument many people use against NFP. The difference is in whether or not we are totally open to God’s work. Perforating the condom and only using it for fertility test purposes is putting your money where your mouth is: total, free, faithful, fruitful love, always, not just most of the time. You are leaving it up to God, even though you are working within His laws that would seem to prevent a pregnancy (infertile time of the month and low likelihood of any sperm making it through the hole in the condom).

If the Church allows us to give a semen sample for research, then I would hope they would allow us to masterbate to obtain the sample.

No, the Church does NOT allow masturbation for research. You are not allowed to masturbate for ANY reason, even allegedly “good” reasons like research or fertility testing.

P.S. Don’t get me wrong, I have no idea what the Church stance is on fertility tests. These are just my thoughts. :twocents:

The disclaimer should really go at the top, if you’re going to go so directly against Church teaching.

 

[Aramis]

While not yet endorsed, there is also the possibility of electo-ejaculation, which is not masturbatory (and in fact is quite unplesant) and results in a sample.

On the condom issue: most lubed condoms are lubed with spermicides. Read the packages, or even the advertisments…

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

While not yet endorsed, there is also the possibility of electo-ejaculation, which is not masturbatory (and in fact is quite unplesant) and results in a sample…

I’m struggling to understand the reasoning behind The Church’s teachinngs.

(The open-to-life argument doesn’t work for me, because we have boasted that NFP can be used effectively to prevent a pregnancy. I’m sure there is another argument that we haven’t covered yet, because I usually agree with The Church’s teachings.)

Why would The Church allow electro-ejaculation but not allow masterbation? (In the context of “fertility tests”, why would masterbation be immoral? Or is the context completely irrelevant?)

 

[Aramis]

I’m struggling to understand the reasoning behind The Church’s teachinngs.

(The open-to-life argument doesn’t work for me, because we have boasted that NFP can be used effectively to prevent a pregnancy. I’m sure there is another argument that we haven’t covered yet, because I usually agree with The Church’s teachings.)

Why would The Church allow electro-ejaculation but not allow masterbation? (In the context of “fertility tests”, why would masterbation be immoral? Or is the context completely irrelevant?)

1)** The church has not endorsed Electro-Ejaculation**. It’s in the grey zone of not having been addressed yet.

1. Masturbation is immoral because it is
   (a) usually requiring a fantasy of sexual activity
   (b) self-gratifying
   (c) often involves other unwholesome props

2.1) Masturbation for sample doesn’t preclude (a) (b) nor (c)

1. Electro-Ejaculation
   (a) requires no fantasy, just well placed electrodes
   (b) is mortification, not gratification.
   (c) needs no unwholesome props.

Given the reading of Humanae Vitae, it’s not a violation of the principles of HV, if the purpose is to aid in the possibility of conception.