Filth in Genesis, Why is it in there?

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dizzy_dave

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I was reading Genesis today at work on my break.
Genesis 19:8 and Genesis 19:31-38. These are the stories about Sodom and Lot’s daughters. I think they are disgusting passages, why did God want these in the Bible? The Parts in Genesis 19:8 about Lot wanting to send out his two virgin daughters for the men to have there way with, why would he do that to his daughters?, I have two daughters and I actually felt sick about that, how could a father even suggest that? Then the other passage Genesis 19:31-38, his daughters do something as disgusting as what he did to them, actually worse I think. I just don’t get it, why is this stuff in the bible? What purpose do these passages have, how do these passages benefit us? Couldn’t they have been cleaned up some? They just seem too repulsive to me to be the word of God, I understand that it is but why would God want us to read this?
 
Perhaps passages like this help highlight just how much we, a sinful people, needed a Savior.

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Its a lesson to us nowdays that those things didnt come from our culture and that our culture isnt evil because we have those things, they have been around from the beginning of time.
 
All such Bible stories are meant to tell us something about the relationship between God and man, and in the case of the OT in particular, how God founded and dealt with the children of Israel.

When Lot said he’d send out his virgin daughters, it was a bluff, because he had no virgin daughters. Both his daughters were married women. The point of telling us this is for the reaction of the men demanding the “visitors”, actually the angels, be sent out to them for male fornication. Lot offered his daughters but the men at his door didn’t want them, if you follow what I mean.

As to Lot’s daughters, the story is told for two reasons: first to show how corrupted Lot’s daughters had become living within the sinful cultures of Sodom and Gomorrah. And, to show the origins of two groups of people who could claim parentage from Lot.
 
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dizzy_dave:
Right, but still, it’s aweful.
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I hate to tell you, but real people are awful. The Bible is about real people with real faults. What’s true is true and shouldn’t be sugar coated.
 
This story has far deeper lessons for the Hebrews.

Who were Lot’s daughters? Moab and Amon.

What were the results of these two incestrous acts? The tribes of Amonites and Moabites.

Why is this important? The Hebrews warred with the Moabites and the Amonites for generations. So the lessons taught to the Hebrews was that incest is not good in God’s eyes. The childred of Lot suffered the effects of his sins for generations upon generations.

You’ll find a similar lesson on the evils of extra marital affairs in the story of Abraham and the descendents of Hagar (who would become the Arabs) and Sarah (who would become the twelve tribes of Israel). A lesson that has continued for 5,000(?) years.

NotWorthy
 
Hi all!

Those passages are in there 'cuz the Bible tells it like it is/was, warts & all.

Our eminent 19th century Sage, Rabbi Shimshon Raphael Hirsch (us-israel.org/jsource/biography/Hirsch.html) writes:
“The Torah is not an ‘anthology of paragons.’ It relates events not because they are worthy of emulation but simply because they took place. The Torah does not attempt to hide from us the faults, errors and weaknesses of our great men and precisely thereby it places the stamp of credibility upon the happenings it relates. The fact that we are told about their faults and weaknesses does not detract from our great men; indeed, it adds to their stature and makes their life stories even more instructive. Had they all been portrayed to us as models of perfection, we would have believed that they had been endowed with a higher nature not given to us to attain. Had they been presented to us as free of human passions and inner conflicts, their nature would seem to us merely the result of a loftier predisposition, not a product of their personal merit, and certainly no model we could ever hope to emulate. Take, for instance, the humility of Moses. If we did not know that he was also capable of flying into a rage, this humility would seem to us an inborn trait not within our capacity to emulate. It is precisely his outburst (“Hear now, you rebels!” Num. 20:10) that lends to his humility its true greatness, for it shows us his humility as the product of a mighty labor of self-control and self-refinement which we should all emulate because it is within our capacity to do so. Also, the Torah relates no sin or error without telling us also of its consequences, great or small…We must never attempt to whitewash the spiritual and moral heroes of our past. They are not in need of our apologies, nor would they tolerate such attempts on our part.”
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See forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=50323&highlight=Terah about Lot.

Howzat?

ssv 👋
 
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NotWorthy:
This story has far deeper lessons for the Hebrews.

Who were Lot’s daughters? Moab and Amon.
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Nit-picking alert:

Lot’s daughters are unnamed in Scripture. The sons that they bore, fathered by their own father, were named Moab and Ben-Ammi, from the latter of which the Ammonites were descended.

Nit-picking alert off.

DaveBj
 
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DaveBj:
Nit-picking alert:

Lot’s daughters are unnamed in Scripture. The sons that they bore, fathered by their own father, were named Moab and Ben-Ammi, from the latter of which the Ammonites were descended.

Nit-picking alert off.

DaveBj
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Thanks for the enlightenment! I need to start checking my facts before I post, maybe.

Oh well, maybe my memory is,
NotWorthy
 
You think that is bad, wait until you get to Onan, Judah and Tamar!😉

Anyway, we have to remember that God does not say that Lot’s actions were good. I have heard of men using Lot’s incestual actions with his daughters as justification to commit similar sick actions with their own daughters.:mad: Of course, the bible speaks strongly against incest.

If I wasn’t a Christian but say an atheist, I would find one of the big differences between Genesis and the stories in mythology to be the Bible’s willingness to share in the faults of its characters. There is no hiding of character flaws, no lessing of faults. Even heros in the bible are shown to be humans. Jacob was unfair to Leah, Joseph was a tattle tell, annoying younger brother, David was an adulterer and a weak dad. Yet, God loved these people. It gives us hope.
 
I once heard a preacher remark about this passage, “You can take the girls out of Sodom, but you can’t take Sodom out of the girls.”

One point I take from this passage is the importance of raising children in a wholesome environment. The ancient story illustrates how Lot’s daughters, who came from a good family, were influenced by the sexually explicit society around them. Then Lot’s own daughters led their father into sin also. Yes, it’s a disgusting story, but it speaks a truth which we shouldn’t forget. The environment that we place ourselves and our children will likely influence their actions and ours.
 
The verses about Lot and his daughters are a typological word picture foreshadowing how Christ would be “marrying” mankind so that a Gentile Church would be borne of the union.
 
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BibleReader:
The verses about Lot and his daughters are a typological word picture foreshadowing how Christ would be “marrying” mankind so that a Gentile Church would be borne of the union.
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What?!?!?! You lost me there.

NotWorthy
 
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dizzy_dave:
I was reading Genesis today at work on my break.
Genesis 19:8 and Genesis 19:31-38. These are the stories about Sodom and Lot’s daughters. I think they are disgusting passages, why did God want these in the Bible? The Parts in Genesis 19:8 about Lot wanting to send out his two virgin daughters for the men to have there way with, why would he do that to his daughters?, I have two daughters and I actually felt sick about that, how could a father even suggest that? Then the other passage Genesis 19:31-38, his daughters do something as disgusting as what he did to them, actually worse I think. I just don’t get it, why is this stuff in the bible? What purpose do these passages have, how do these passages benefit us? Couldn’t they have been cleaned up some? They just seem too repulsive to me to be the word of God, I understand that it is but why would God want us to read this?
Click to expand...

Why is it a surprise to find this kind of thing in the Bible ?​

 
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