Finding the right companion

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misericordie

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I have something which has been lately on my mind, and I would like thoughts on this and comments, which I would highly appreciate. It is the following: Why is it that I have spoken to various women(young adults) whom when discussing life and vocations, have expressed to me that they are in discernment as to marriage or religious life, and well are open to where God leads them, (me too as a guy) BUT, when one tries to develope a deep friendship with them in the hopes (though I don’t make it obvious) of maybe dating (as a discernment posibility), it is as if they are afraid or something of really getting into any relationship? I don’t understand, they claim to want to be open to God’s will, and God may place a nice decent guy in their path, but when one tries in just friend terms, without even suggesting a date, they seem to backoff. Inside of me this really hurts. After all, I am a fairly good looking guy, young, well educated, and well mannered with strong morals and faith. It kind of makes me belive that is why then there are good guys who just give up with the “good” women, and start dating the more worldly ones. Gee, it’s amazing!
Does anyone have any thoughts or advice? Thank you all so much, God bless.
 
misericordie,

It is important to keep in mind that any person, male or female, that is seriously discerning a call to religious life may not to be open to forming friendships with members of the opposite sex.

It seems to me that you may suffer from something that most guys suffer from… The presumption that friendships with females may move beyond that. Women don’t necessarily think this way.

Also, you spend a lot of time in your post backing up all the reasons why a woman should have every reason to explore marriage with you. You state:

“After all, I am a fairly good looking guy, young, well educated, and well mannered with strong morals and faith.”

These all may be true, but they don’t make your case. Your suitability as a mate does not imply that God wills you to date anybody. I dare say that our Holy Father would be the ideal husband to any woman and a great father to boot if he didn’t have his current calling.

There is also another problem with what you implying in the following statement:

*“I don’t understand, they claim to want to be open to God’s will, and God may place a nice decent guy in their path, but when one tries in just friend terms, without even suggesting a date, they seem to backoff.” *

How can you possibly claim to know that these women are or are not open to God’s will? You are implying in this statement this: If these women are open to God’s will in their life, they will in turn, be open to a deep friendship with me for the purposes of determining a vocation to marriage. I am a decent guy.

Please, accept my criticisms as the thoughts and experiences of someone who has been this way before. I too, thought very much as you do now. But I learned that this kind of thinking is only displaying my unsuitability to be a husband. When I thought this way, I acted on it. I would become upset with women because they wounded my pride by not seeing “how good I was”.

As men of faith, we need to focus on how good God is. St. Paul says that the only thing worth boasting about is the Cross of Christ. If you want to attract a faithful Catholic spouse, don’t boast, even if it is to yourself. Women can see right through you and your intentions, don’t even doubt it for a minute. I learned this the hard way from my wife.

Continued next post…
 
If you feel that God is calling you to marriage, rejoice. He does not give desires that cannot be fulfilled. Remember, however, that you are not married right now, today.

Today, you are single. Your vocation is to be a single person, today. Live accordingly. Don’t presume to know God’s will for you beyond this day. When he is ready to give you that gift of marriage, he will. You are not going to rush Him or get married any sooner by worrying about how women treat you. I think that the females you are encountering are living what I describe above to you.

I wish you will. Just be patient and wait on the Lord. Love the people you meet today and let Him take care of the rest. Remember, Adam didn’t have to look for Eve.

Your brother in Christ,
Jamieshub
 
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jamieshub:
misericordie,

It is important to keep in mind that any person, male or female, that is seriously discerning a call to religious life may not to be open to forming friendships with members of the opposite sex.

It seems to me that you may suffer from something that most guys suffer from… The presumption that friendships with females may move beyond that. Women don’t necessarily think this way.

Also, you spend a lot of time in your post backing up all the reasons why a woman should have every reason to explore marriage with you. You state:

“After all, I am a fairly good looking guy, young, well educated, and well mannered with strong morals and faith.”

These all may be true, but they don’t make your case. Your suitability as a mate does not imply that God wills you to date anybody. I dare say that our Holy Father would be the ideal husband to any woman and a great father to boot if he didn’t have his current calling.

There is also another problem with what you implying in the following statement:

*“I don’t understand, they claim to want to be open to God’s will, and God may place a nice decent guy in their path, but when one tries in just friend terms, without even suggesting a date, they seem to backoff.” *

How can you possibly claim to know that these women are or are not open to God’s will? You are implying in this statement this: If these women are open to God’s will in their life, they will in turn, be open to a deep friendship with me for the purposes of determining a vocation to marriage. I am a decent guy.

Please, accept my criticisms as the thoughts and experiences of someone who has been this way before. I too, thought very much as you do now. But I learned that this kind of thinking is only displaying my unsuitability to be a husband. When I thought this way, I acted on it. I would become upset with women because they wounded my pride by not seeing “how good I was”.

As men of faith, we need to focus on how good God is. St. Paul says that the only thing worth boasting about is the Cross of Christ. If you want to attract a faithful Catholic spouse, don’t boast, even if it is to yourself. Women can see right through you and your intentions, don’t even doubt it for a minute. I learned this the hard way from my wife.

Continued next post…
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They have expressed THEIR thoughts of discernment beween marriage and a religious vocation.  However, when I try to make the friendship grow(without being obvious) that's when they tend to backoff as if afraid  of THEIR OWN feelings, and where those feelings may lead them, namely to a relationship that leads to marriage.  Why not just say, they are 100% sure they want to be a nun, and are closed to all posibility for marriage, instead of actually EXPRESSING they are "stuck" deciding?
Thanks.
 
Wow. That’s a very good point. But I think jamieshub also made some good points.

I don’t have any answers on something like that–after all, despite my liberal arts background I’m remarkably scientific in my thinking and I think it *behooves * a girl to test her hypotheses. But, I have a funny little insight into the question. When I attended Franciscan U., more often than not boys AND girls would use the “discernment” excuse to get out of a date with someone they weren’t interested in. I myself used it (hey–I was young and even stupider back then…) when a certain girl showed interest. (In retrospect, it was a very stupid decision–she was beautiful AND orthodox!

I’m not saying you get the discernment excuse because every woman you approach doesn’t like you. It’s just that discernment sometimes requires total abstainence from EVERYTHING–even innocent dating. I knew one girl at Franciscan U. who had several guys moping around in love with her. She said, and we all believed, that she was likely going to be a nun. She dated nobody. But, last I heard, she was married with a child. Go fig.

That’s the funny thing about God. He’s got a truly divine sense of humor. He really does want to give you what’s best for you–and everyone–but he just doesn’t show you the blueprints very often. 😃
 
One thing I’ve noticed as a veteran of Catholic “young adult” groups is that, 1) Most people came with some openness to meeting a potential date, and yet, 2) many of these groups and social interactions seemed deliberately set up to discourage dating! Everything was done in a group in the daytime, activities were careful to avoid things like dances, moderators were very forceful and “youth minister”-like, etc. In olden days virtually any parish organization like the Altar Society would throw a dance, and probably 50% of my forebears met, courted and married as a result! We should bring back these great traditions!
 
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montanaman:
Wow. That’s a very good point. But I think jamieshub also made some good points.

I don’t have any answers on something like that–after all, despite my liberal arts background I’m remarkably scientific in my thinking and I think it *behooves *a girl to test her hypotheses. But, I have a funny little insight into the question. When I attended Franciscan U., more often than not boys AND girls would use the “discernment” excuse to get out of a date with someone they weren’t interested in. I myself used it (hey–I was young and even stupider back then…) when a certain girl showed interest. (In retrospect, it was a very stupid decision–she was beautiful AND orthodox!

I’m not saying you get the discernment excuse because every woman you approach doesn’t like you. It’s just that discernment sometimes requires total abstainence from EVERYTHING–even innocent dating. I knew one girl at Franciscan U. who had several guys moping around in love with her. She said, and we all believed, that she was likely going to be a nun. She dated nobody. But, last I heard, she was married with a child. Go fig.

That’s the funny thing about God. He’s got a truly divine sense of humor. He really does want to give you what’s best for you–and everyone–but he just doesn’t show you the blueprints very often. 😃
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That is so true. I have never thought of it that way. Or maybe they are just afraid of “commitment” and hence the reason why one never hears they date, nor do they enter the convent either. I know one like that, now maybe I know this other young woman who may be the same. They loose out on so much. Are some SOOOO afraid that all guys may just want them for no good? There are guys as myself who wants to respect them. If they think that dating a guy (a guy who is decent and catholic in all praxis) is wrong, that seems like ULTRA fanatical and NOT Church teaching. It is like some catholics I have met that think that all sex is bad, even between a couple who is marries IN the Church.
 
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misericordie:
BUT, when one tries to develope a deep friendship with them in the hopes (though I don’t make it obvious) of maybe dating (as a discernment posibility), it is as if they are afraid or something of really getting into any relationship?

It kind of makes me belive that is why then there are good guys who just give up with the “good” women, and start dating the more worldly ones. Gee, it’s amazing!
Does anyone have any thoughts or advice? Thank you all so much, God bless.
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Well first of all I have to say that it warms my heart to hear that there are orthodox guys out there looking for the same in a wife. I don’t see much of that at all in my daily life, though I am trying to have more “fellowship” by joining a young adults group at my church.

I can tell that you are frustrated and confused, but maybe my perspective as a young single female can help you out a bit. You make it sound as if when you are interested in a girl you try to be subtle about it and go the friendship route- so as not to make it obvious, you say. Well, speaking as someone who has given her heart away in the past to a “friend” and then having it be broken and thrown back at her under the excuse that “well technically we were just friends anyway”; I must say that in the future I want to be with a guy- to be pursued by a guy- who tells me how he feels about me and makes it clear that he is pursuing me as a love interest… not just “be my friend and see where it goes”. Now obviously, it is good to get to know someone before you become more intentional in your actions towards them- maybe you’ve done that already since you’ve already decided you would be interested in dating them. But I will argue- and many may disagree- that generally men and women can’t be friends… at least they cannot have close deep relationships long term w/o dating/marriage becoming a factor. I will have close deep relationships with my girls for probably the remainder of my life, but realistically any relationships I have with guys will have to change over time as we marry other people. That’s just the way it is, if you ask me. I think it is wise to accept this as a fact in order to protect your heart, which is something I should have done in the past and perhaps it is something that these particular women you are interested in are doing as well.
So my advice to you would be to just go for it, be intentional, be brave. Even if I wasn’t seriously interested in a guy I would be so hugely honored to know that he was interested in me. Don’t give up, there are many of us singles out there… not all of us are ready to get married at the moment but there are women worth pursuing!
Blessings!
 
You know, maybe it’s time to rethink the phrase “too scared to commit,” or “commitment-phobic.” I’ve gotten that a couple of times, but usually from girls I would recoil from. Sure, there are lots of people out there–mostly guys, naturally–who are just afraid to “choose.” But despite what most women seem to think, we’re not clods fueled entirely by our hormones. What many women mistake for commitment-phobia is actually a kind of discernment. Women are frustrated with dating in the early 21st century? Please, cut us a little slack. The sexual revolution as wreaked havok on our chances of finding a suitable woman, too.

I know the good Catholic girls and guys are out there somewhere. Maybe we should send out an invitation through the orthodox Catholic underground that there will be a massive speed-dating event somewhere in the center of the country. Say…Nebraska. Not much there. No distractions. It’d be a good way to meet. I expect a turnout of, oh, 500 people or so… 😉

Just kidding. I’m not THAT cynical.
 
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montanaman:
I know the good Catholic girls and guys are out there somewhere. Maybe we should send out an invitation through the orthodox Catholic underground that there will be a massive speed-dating event somewhere in the center of the country. Say…Nebraska. Not much there. No distractions. It’d be a good way to meet. I expect a turnout of, oh, 500 people or so… 😉

Just kidding. I’m not THAT cynical.
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Sweetheart, I’m from Nebraska. You’re right there’s plenty of room for all of the Catholic singles. 😉
 
Lol. “It’s a small world, after all…” :whistle:

I know–I drove through it on my way out here. Took a looong nap while driving, too. I just tied off my steering wheel and snoozed.

Speaking of Catholic singles, I think Theology on Tap was mentioned in another thread. Granted, it’s not INTENDED to be a Catholic meat-market, but there’s a better chance of meeting someone at one of those things rather than going down to “Stockman’s Bar” or some such place.

Then again, aren’t we supposed to NOT look? “You always find someone when you’re not looking…”
 
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Steph700:
You make it sound as if when you are interested in a girl you try to be subtle about it and go the friendship route- so as not to make it obvious, you say. Well, speaking as someone who has given her heart away in the past to a “friend” and then having it be broken and thrown back at her under the excuse that “well technically we were just friends anyway”; I must say that in the future I want to be with a guy- to be pursued by a guy- who tells me how he feels about me and makes it clear that he is pursuing me as a love interest… not just “be my friend and see where it goes”.
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There is a lot of wisdom in that statement. I’d also like to point out that the first approach is dishonest and the second approach is honest. If you have long-term hopes for any relationship, it is always better to start in honesty.

Now, in my prior life I wasn’t too interested in pursuing chaste, orthodox women. So this may not fit for that type of woman. But for the majority of young people who are sexually active with multiple partners – either serially or not – I was also aware that many woman viewed accepting a date more cautiously. At some gut level, their internal question was, “do I think I could be interested in sleeping with this guy”. If a definite “no”, then the date was not gonna’ happen.
 
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Steph700:
Well first of all I have to say that it warms my heart to hear that there are orthodox guys out there looking for the same in a wife. I don’t see much of that at all in my daily life, though I am trying to have more “fellowship” by joining a young adults group at my church.

I can tell that you are frustrated and confused, but maybe my perspective as a young single female can help you out a bit. You make it sound as if when you are interested in a girl you try to be subtle about it and go the friendship route- so as not to make it obvious, you say. Well, speaking as someone who has given her heart away in the past to a “friend” and then having it be broken and thrown back at her under the excuse that “well technically we were just friends anyway”; I must say that in the future I want to be with a guy- to be pursued by a guy- who tells me how he feels about me and makes it clear that he is pursuing me as a love interest… not just “be my friend and see where it goes”. Now obviously, it is good to get to know someone before you become more intentional in your actions towards them- maybe you’ve done that already since you’ve already decided you would be interested in dating them. But I will argue- and many may disagree- that generally men and women can’t be friends… at least they cannot have close deep relationships long term w/o dating/marriage becoming a factor. I will have close deep relationships with my girls for probably the remainder of my life, but realistically any relationships I have with guys will have to change over time as we marry other people. That’s just the way it is, if you ask me. I think it is wise to accept this as a fact in order to protect your heart, which is something I should have done in the past and perhaps it is something that these particular women you are interested in are doing as well.
So my advice to you would be to just go for it, be intentional, be brave. Even if I wasn’t seriously interested in a guy I would be so hugely honored to know that he was interested in me. Don’t give up, there are many of us singles out there… not all of us are ready to get married at the moment but there are women worth pursuing!
Blessings!
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Steph, thank you so much. Your advice really made my day. It is the best one I have received yet. I more value it, being it comes from the female perspective and I know you understand. Yes, I would like to “go for it” as you say, but I don’t at times because, just like you, my heart has been hurt so much in this. I wish, many of them can see my inner feelings and thoughts to see I have really had good intentions towards them. Look, write now I am hurting inside because a “friend” (female) who I had feelings for, has not even remembered to call me once in months. She was one of the ones, who just wanted to remain “friends” but friends call each other even once in a while, or get together for coffee, etc.
Thanks again, please pray for me.
 
Also, Misericordie, you might want to consider the fact that just because you are a good Catholic man and she was a good Catholic girl does not mean that it was a good match.
There are all kinds of variables in choosing a spouse besides their faith (which I do not mean to minimize in ANY way): do you share compatible interests as her, do you have the same views on raising children, where do you want to live, etc etc.

Not to mention just plain ol’ chemistry plays into it a great deal. I have no doubt that you are a young, goodlooking and wonderful Catholic man but you perhaps weren’t the man FOR HER.

Don’t let that get ya down for too long, if you can manage it! You have so much to offer a young lady.

Also here is my story to provide some hope for you that things are not always what they seem:
When I met my husband, we dated for a few months and then it fizzled out, by mutual laziness–that is, I didn’t call him and he didn’t call me.
Then one day I was sitting in a bar with a group of friends who were all either engaged or very close to being so. I was the only “singleton” there. As I sat there feeling more and more sorry for myself, I decided to mentally check out from the conversation and put together a list in my head of qualities that I wanted in a man. I wanted him to be a good person, funny, Catholic, from a large family (hey it was my wish list, I could wish for whatever I wanted!), love the outdoors, be affectionate and kind, tall, handsome (ahem, it was MY list, don’t shoot me!), a hard worker and supportive of me.
My first thought was, whew! who can fit that bill?!
I began to despair as I couldn’t believe there was a person out there who would fill all those criteria. Then I realized that the “fizzled out guy” had EXACTLY all those qualities! I began to wonder why I let that fizzle out when he was so obviously a good match for me.
What I came up with was that I just wasn’t in a mental space, when dating him, to be thinking of marriage material. During our dates I would have been more likely to think something along the lines of “that was a nice evening” rather than “wow what a good guy…bet he’d make a great spouse”.
Do you see what I mean? Perhaps these girls are just in a different spot than you are, mentally. Or perhaps you don’t fit their “criteria”.
OR, perhaps it is just not the right time yet.

The next day after that night, I called my husband and we ended up dating again. I knew within the first two dates that I wanted to marry him. I also believe that it was divine intervention that night in that crummy bar. God was speaking to me and telling me to make sure that I had my eyes open from here on out!
I told him that I loved him after about a month of dating and that I would marry him someday after about 6 weeks (what can I say, I am a direct person). He was surprised to say the least!
But I KNEW that this would happen; after all, I had been given the green light from God himself!

At any rate, we have been married almost 9 years and I love him as much now as I did then. He is everything to me and we have something very special between us.

So let God be in charge of your love life and you will reap the rewards so fully that it would surpass your wildest dreams.

I know you are hurting and I would be too. Give it some more time and be open to all the possibilities that are out there.

Good luck!
Carrie
 
Someone I used to know prayed very hard for a good man, God sent three, one after the other, but she was a feminist (would never admit it, possibly even to herself), and knew better than the Church how life should be lived.

There is no question that God answers such prayers. He answered hers, but without assenting with all her heart and soul to the Catholic Faith, she could not accept His answer.

Good men look like wimps to them and they are genuinely surprised that we will not budge an inch on Church teaching.

Faith lets me know in my heart and soul, beyond any doubt that happiness in not possible otherwise. Sincere love could accept nothing less.

I wonder that people who claim to be looking for such a man find nothing to interest them in these forums, because my understanding of life has grown by leaps and bounds in just a few days.
 
Misericordie:

It sounds as though you haven’t yet met a person who is as dedicated to your faith as you. It’s interesting you mention that some of the young women you have gone out with were unwilling to be anything more than friends because I have also had this experience with a young man recently who told me he only wanted friendship from me after we had spent a lot of time together and had become very close. I went out with him for a few months then he pressured me to be sexually intimate with him and I said no. He stopped being as friendly towards me though we continued seeing each other. One day I told him I wanted to have a serious relationship with him and he gave me a horrified look and said that was the last thing he wanted. I was really upset because I was certain he wanted to have a committed relationship at some stage. We had struck a really deep connection not only on a mental but also a physical level and I really think we could’ve been soul mates. I don’t understand why some men put pressure on women to have sex so quickly into a relationship - don’t they realise how disrespectful this is to women and how it makes them feel? Perhaps the guy I liked would’ve had a relationship with me if I had capitulated to what he wanted but then I would’ve compromised my own moral values for him and I wasn’t prepared to do that. I feel heartbroken even though I know I made the right decision. 😦 I spoke to a friend of mine about my experience and was surprised to find out she had gone through the same thing with her boyfriend except her boyfriend had tried to force himself on her when she refused to be sexually intimate with him. I think it’s really sad that there are so many men out there that value physical intimacy more than the abiding love and friendship that is so much more important in any relationship. As another friend said to me recently- chivalry is dead and it seems romance is too.

ozgirl
 
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jamieshub:
If you feel that God is calling you to marriage, rejoice. He does not give desires that cannot be fulfilled. Remember, however, that you are not married right now, today.

Today, you are single. Your vocation is to be a single person, today. Live accordingly. Don’t presume to know God’s will for you beyond this day. When he is ready to give you that gift of marriage, he will. You are not going to rush Him or get married any sooner by worrying about how women treat you. I think that the females you are encountering are living what I describe above to you.

I wish you will. Just be patient and wait on the Lord. Love the people you meet today and let Him take care of the rest. Remember, Adam didn’t have to look for Eve.

Your brother in Christ,
Jamieshub
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I think that is great advice for all of us single men who are trying to determine God’s will in our lives. Thanks, it really spoke to me. God bless you brother!
 
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ozgirl:
Misericordie:

It sounds as though you haven’t yet met a person who is as dedicated to your faith as you. It’s interesting you mention that some of the young women you have gone out with were unwilling to be anything more than friends because I have also had this experience with a young man recently who told me he only wanted friendship from me after we had spent a lot of time together and had become very close. I went out with him for a few months then he pressured me to be sexually intimate with him and I said no. He stopped being as friendly towards me though we continued seeing each other. One day I told him I wanted to have a serious relationship with him and he gave me a horrified look and said that was the last thing he wanted. I was really upset because I was certain he wanted to have a committed relationship at some stage. We had struck a really deep connection not only on a mental but also a physical level and I really think we could’ve been soul mates. I don’t understand why some men put pressure on women to have sex so quickly into a relationship - don’t they realise how disrespectful this is to women and how it makes them feel? Perhaps the guy I liked would’ve had a relationship with me if I had capitulated to what he wanted but then I would’ve compromised my own moral values for him and I wasn’t prepared to do that. I feel heartbroken even though I know I made the right decision. 😦 I spoke to a friend of mine about my experience and was surprised to find out she had gone through the same thing with her boyfriend except her boyfriend had tried to force himself on her when she refused to be sexually intimate with him. I think it’s really sad that there are so many men out there that value physical intimacy more than the abiding love and friendship that is so much more important in any relationship. As another friend said to me recently- chivalry is dead and it seems romance is too.

ozgirl
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ozgirl, wow, how sad that some guys do think like that, I agree with you. They are not aware of how lucky theyare to have found decent God loving women. See NOT being with that guy a true blessing. Some guys want to force themselves on their girlfriends, etc, not knowing that continuing to disrespect the woman’s desire NOT to have sex, etc, is not only a grave sin, but ILLEGAL(a crime).
 
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