Fine tuned universe and carbon based life forms?

[YHWH_Christ]

An atheist is arguing to me that proponents of fine tuning arguments for the existence of God assume that only carbon based life forms can exist which in fact is not certain. He argues that rather than our universe being finely tuned for life, life is actually finely tuned to our universe based on its conditions. Another universe might not be able to give rise to the kind of life we find on Earth, but perhaps non-carbon based life could evolve in that universe based on its conditions. How do we respond? (Sorry for so many questions lately I am debating an atheist).

 

[vern_humphrey]

Let me get this straight – we’re discussing a “different universe” that may or may not exist, but if it does, we can never visit or see it?

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

 

[Wesrock]

I’m not a fan of fine tuning arguments but his objection, at least as you stated it, makes it seem like the arguments (such that they are) just went over his head.

 

[chessnerd321]

In most (as in almost all) possible universes atoms wouldn’t even exist.

 

[Dan_Defender]

It’s all speculation. No alternative types of biochemistry have been discovered. The reality is, we live in the best of all possible worlds.

 

[Beryllos]

How do we respond? (Sorry for so many questions lately I am debating an atheist).

I didn’t realize earlier that you were debating an atheist. I would suggest to you that the scientific/philosophical debate is a sideshow. Intellectual arguments are not likely to convince your friend or convert him. Even so, they may be worthwhile. If it provides occasions for you to share ideas with charity, and get to know one another, the Holy Spirit may work on him through you.

 

[Wozza]

An atheist is arguing to me that proponents of fine tuning arguments for the existence of God assume that only carbon based life forms can exist which in fact is not certain. He argues that rather than our universe being finely tuned for life…

It’s not. As far as we know, there is a relatively small portion of a tiny fraction of the this planet that is capable of suporting life. The rest of the universe appears to be lethal in extremis.

 

[Trifleton]

Here, from an article by philosopher Robin Collins

Objection 2: Other Forms of Life Objection

Another objection people commonly raise to the fine-tuning argument is that as far as we know, other forms of life could exist even if the parameters of physics were different. So, it is claimed, the fine-tuning argument ends up presupposing that all forms of intelligent life must be like us. The answer to this objection is that most cases of fine-tuning do not make this presupposition. Consider, for instance, the case of the fine-tuning of the strong nuclear force. If it were slightly larger or smaller, no atoms could exist other than hydrogen. Contrary to what one might see on Star Trek , an intelligent life form cannot be composed merely of hydrogen gas: there is simply not enough stable complexity. So, in general the fine-tuning argument merely presupposes that intelligent life requires some degree of stable, reproducible organized complexity. This is certainly a very reasonable assumption.

More here: https://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil383/collins.htm

 

[preacher_of_christ]

It’s possible that biomolecules could form with zinc instead of carbon, however the fine tuning argument does not hinge on the fact that life can adapt to certain environmental differences since there are certain necessities for intelligent life to exist. Life cant adapt to an environment that doesnt allow it to exist, otherwise we would have seen intelligent life on almost all planets that are made out of solid material. Life can adapt to certain changes within the spectrum that allows for life. The fine tuning accounts for the formation of galaxies, solar systems, the metaphysical laws of nature allowing for a uniform material reality to exist etc, and even the existence of the universe itself since if it would have been a little slower it would have collapsed and a little faster it would not be possible for structures like solar systems or galaxies to form. The chance of the speed being within this spectrum is one divided by 10 to the power of 55, so its beyond any resonable doubt that it was not by pure chanse.